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Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by enraged_camel on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @02:26PM (#6014314)
I only ride my bike on dedicated bike lanes (by "dedicated" I mean those blocked from the main road) and bike paths. Everywhere else, I ride on the sidewalk. Fortunately, most sidewalks where I live are sparsely populated, and I make sure to slow down to walking speed or dismount completely when going through areas with lots of pedestrians.

Someone told me I could get cited for riding my bike on a sidewalk. Fuck that shit. I'd rather pay $50 than get hit by a car.

Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by preinheimer on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @02:34PM (#6014362)
As a pedestrian, you terrify and bully me.

As a driver managing turns, you're traveling at a very different speed than the people I'm expecting on the sidewalk which makes turning safely much more difficult.

Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by enraged_camel on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @05:01PM (#6015464)
>>As a pedestrian, you terrify and bully me.

I clearly said I slow down or dismount when I'm near pedestrians. If you still feel terrified or bullied, I think that's a personal problem.

>>As a driver managing turns, you're traveling at a very different speed than the people I'm expecting on the sidewalk which makes turning safely much more difficult.

Bikers who do this deserve absolutely no sympathy. The safe thing to do when biking on sidewalks is to dismount as you arrive at an intersection, even if the pedestrian light is green. Then you cross the intersection as a pedestrian, i.e. by walking.

Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by winterchil on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @06:07PM (#6015925)
>> The safe thing to do when biking on sidewalks is to dismount as you arrive at an intersection

I think this is also the legally required thing to do in most jurisdictions.

Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by _j5l3 on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @02:37PM (#6014386)
How does the speed of someone on the sidewalk affect a driver?
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by ianferrel on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @02:44PM (#6014435)
A driver turning off the street onto a side street or down a driveway needs to ensure that there will be no one in his driving path before starting the turn. If people are walking on the sidewalk, he needs to look 10 feet or so to either side. If they're riding bikes or skateboards or something that travels much faster than a walking person, he needs to look much further to either side.
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by rallison on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @02:40PM (#6014409)
Crosswalks
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by Yver on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @02:33PM (#6014358)
You could also injure a pedestrian. Do you realize that you can hurt an elderly person on the sidewalk with a bike as much as a car can hurt you on the road?
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by ajross on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @02:49PM (#6014463)
You can surely hurt a pedestrian while riding on the sidewalk (or through a crosswalk, for that matter). You surely can not hurt them "as much as" a car in the traffic lanes will hurt a cyclist in a much faster collision with a much heavier object. That assertion is just silly.
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by pdx on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @03:21PM (#6014685)
As a father of toddlers, (3 and 5), I despise the attitude of many bicyclists on sidewalks and public paths.

You think you can't seriously hurt somebody on a bike? It depends on the someone you hit. Slow down when you see a pedestrian, as there might be others that you don't see. Don't ring your little bell at them as you whip past at 20mph, just slow down and show some common courtesy like a real human person.

Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by ajross on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @03:29PM (#6014764)
This doesn't seem to be responsive. Your kids (or mine), no matter how heart-tugging a debate example they may be, will still be hurt less from a collision with a bicycle than the cyclist will be from a collision with my car. To argue otherwise, as Yver did above, is silly and counterproductive.
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by pdx on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @03:45PM (#6014885)
Thanks for the dismissal. "Heart tugging", isn't what I was going for, sport.

Your lack of desire to take seriously your responsibilities to those you share the sidewalk with is a problem for me. You want to be on the sidewalk so you'll be safe, while at the same time, refusing to acknowledge any risk you're imposing on others. That doesn't fly with me. Slow it down, sporty.

Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by kleinsch on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @04:00PM (#6014996)
Arguing the degree of hurt is pointless - you can kill pedestrians if you hit them with your bike.

http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/03/07/san-francisco-bicyc...

http://dcist.com/2012/06/woman_dies_after_being_hit_by_cycli...

Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by ajross on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @04:51PM (#6015387)
How, in an argument arguing for (or against) something based on the harm it can cause, is the "degree of hurt" "pointless". That makes even less sense than the original point I was responding to.

Clearly this is an issue of religion. If so, then just declare your side, sharpen your pitchfork and be done with it. But arguing as this thread does, that riding on the sidewalk for safety is "equally unsafe" needs to be done with evidence. It's certainly not true that the collisions are independently more dangerous. Maybe you could argue that there would be more of them or something.

Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by joseph on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @03:58PM (#6014980)
A bicycle can and occasionally does kill people. An old woman was struck and killed just a couple of blocks from my house. Children would be even more likely to die in a collision I would think.
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by mistercow on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @03:16PM (#6014661)
Yver did say "elderly person". It seems pretty likely that you could kill a sufficiently elderly person by hitting them with a bicycle, which seems "as much as" you can hurt someone with a car.
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by enraged_camel on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @02:35PM (#6014376)
You should try practicing your reading comprehension skills. I said:

>>Fortunately, most sidewalks where I live are sparsely populated, and I make sure to slow down to walking speed or dismount completely when going through areas with lots of pedestrians.

Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by oinksoft on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @02:34PM (#6014368)
I see your point. If the speed limits are not too high though, you might want to try riding on the roads and using some tactics that help me (at least):

* If you hear a car coming up on you, always turn your head and look back at the car so that they know you see them and because faces command attention. This quick look also gives you an idea of how much the driver notices you, that is, if you have to bail in a hurry.

* If there are cars around in general, ride with a rigid posture that makes you appear a more formidable object.

* Keep close enough to the center of the road that motorists think twice before passing you, move over briefly if you want them to be able to pass (they'll appreciate it).

* Always signal your intentions if there is any traffic, bicycle or otherwise.

Critical mass has to start somewhere! :^)

Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by malandrew on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @02:57PM (#6014516)
Upvote for staying near the center of the road, but remember that that is only permitted on 14-15+ ft wide lanes (don't worry, the overwhelming majority of city lanes are not this wide). If the lane is wider than that, you should stay to the right (but you are within your right to stay outside the door zone)
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by lutorm on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @03:08PM (#6014599)
IIRC, CA law says bicyclists should ride as far to the right as practicable. I think it even says bicyclists may be justified in taking the entire lane if conditions so require.
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by mindslight on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @03:58PM (#6014985)
Also, it's prudent to consider one of those conditions to be aggressive behavior from a car behind you (horn, etc). They're proudly boasting of their non-understanding of how to fluidly pass non-lane-width traffic, so it's just safer to take the full lane and ensure they'll either change lanes or wait for a lull in oncoming traffic instead of half-passing then cutting into you.
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by malandrew on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @07:22PM (#6016364)
Exactly. One of my accidents was when a taxi driver honked at me, tried to overtake and hit the front of my bike and pulled in my front tire when trying to aggressively merge back into the lane I was in. Completely destroyed the front end of my bike. I was able to jump off the bike away from the vehicle to avoid getting hurt.
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by malandrew on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @07:19PM (#6016346)
There are several conditions that allow the bicyclists to ride in the middle of the lane and ignore the "stay as far to the right as practicle" rule. The most common of them is the "substandard width lane", which has been established to be any lane narrower than about 14-15 ft
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by ejs on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @02:31PM (#6014342)
People are often killed riding on sidewalks, I avoid riding on them because they are very dangerous wherever there is a driveway - cars move to the edge of the street without expecting a vehicle moving at 15mph+ on the sidewalk.
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by enraged_camel on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @02:35PM (#6014370)
Trust me, I know. I always slow down to walking speed when I'm approaching a drive-way or a parking lot exit.

The thing about riding your bike on the sidewalk is that you, as the cyclist, can avoid virtually all danger by being cautious. Whereas on the road, you're pretty much at the mercy of car drivers and are at great risk regardless of how careful you are.

Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by malandrew on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @02:48PM (#6014460)
Citation. I mean I know it does happen, but I'm extremely skeptical of the use of the word "often" here.
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by ejs on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @03:07PM (#6014590)
http://www.enhancements.org/download/trb/1636-011.PDF

"The most interesting result of the analysis was the finding that sidewalk cyclists have higher event rates on roads than nonsidewalk cyclists."

Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by clarky07 on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @03:29PM (#6014765)
Nothing in that paper talks about people being killed as far as I could see. Higher event rates != higher deaths. Running into another bike was considered an event, but that's not generally deadly.
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by malandrew on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @07:24PM (#6016377)
Nothing in that paper supports this statement: "People are often killed riding on sidewalks..."
Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by MartinCron on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @02:42PM (#6014428)
Someone told me I could get cited for riding my bike on a sidewalk

Depending on where you ride, that may or may not actually be the case. In my city, it's absolutely legal to ride on the sidewalk as long as you yield to pedestrians.

Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by maw on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @03:02PM (#6014553)
* I only ride my bike on dedicated bike lanes (by "dedicated" I mean those blocked from the main road) and bike paths.*

Where I live, Mexico City, there are lots of idiots who ride in the wrong direction in those lanes. I confront some of them and am told that I am crazy, because, you know, no pasa nada.

Be happy that you have bike lanes at all; for all intents and purposes there aren't any where I live.

Re:Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident by jessaustin on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @11:47PM (#6017341)
Everywhere else, I ride on the sidewalk.

Stop doing that. [DELETED EPITHET].