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Re:Tools For Treason by unclebucknasty on Sunday July 07, 2013 @11:52AM (#6002295)
>but one of the comments goes to great lengths explaining that those controlling the data collection are duly elected.

I saw this too and thought how insanely naive it was. Also how nonsensical a response it is. The very point is that people feel betrayed by their government. By definition, then, those "duly elected people" are not representing the will of the people. That is, there is something broken about the system that must be fixed, but cannot be fixed by merely participating more in that broken system.

This dysfunction is also evidenced by the fact that much of this was done in secret by these elected officials and there is much effort to maintain that secrecy. A democracy cannot flourish in secret, as it relies upon an informed populace. But, if not for someone breaking laws created by "duly elected officials", we would not even know of these programs and hence the need to consider holding these officials accountable democratically.

In fact, that was the very point of the article: we have lost the reins and must now protect ourselves. And, the article itself was very thought provoking. Not so much for the technological solutions it suggested, but for the justification and context for their neccessity.

Re:Tools For Treason by rayiner on Sunday July 07, 2013 @04:10PM (#6003233)
> The very point is that people feel betrayed by their government.

Here is the problem: the people don't feel betrayed. Just look at the turnout of the recent "Restore the 4th" in San Francisco--a pathetic ~400 people turned out. You claim that our elected representatives are not representing the "will of the people," but what you mean is that they are not representing the viewpoints of you and your friends. It's disingenuous.

And it's not because people are entirely apathetic. Just look at how many people Tea Party rallies attract. Tea Party rallies regularly get tens of thousands of people to turn out at events all over the country.

Maybe, just maybe, the people know and just don't think the slope is so slippery as you and your friends think it is?

Re:Tools For Treason by unclebucknasty on Monday July 08, 2013 @12:40AM (#6005227)
You should probably read the article and the comment I referenced in full, then re-read my post in context before pouncing with your worldview.

Hint: The author specifically does feel betrayed. That's what the article is about.

It's also funny that you mentioned the Koch brothers-backed, corporate-sponsored, Fox News-pitched, astroturf Tea Party "movement", given the way that same media has covered this NSA issue like an episode of "Where In The World Is Carmen Sandiego" as they moved the focus to the Snowden chase vs. focusing on the actual NSA activity he uncovered. Such disinformation/redirection campaigns that fueled the woefully misled Tea Party folks are merely the flip side of the media campaign to mute responses here by shaping the narrative to one about a man vs. a nation. Ironically, this failure (or complicity) of the media is yet another threat to our democracy. 

But, even with this concerted effort to placate the masses, there are many, many people who feel betrayed or who are concerned, irrespective of your scientific assessment of the pulse of America, which seems to be based solely on the turnout at a rally.

Re:Tools For Treason by lurchpop on Sunday July 07, 2013 @01:21PM (#6002622)
It's very much a "blame the victim" argument government apologists & partisans always run to. It's the same as the redneck's "love it or leave it" choice. If the government is violating my rights I can either elect a different Democrat or I can live as an illegal alien in another country.