Your analogy is apt. What you (like a lot of programmers) fail to realize is that selling a painting is extraordinarily difficult.

They didn't coin the phrase "starving artist" for fun.

The problem is unless you're guy kawasaki, kevin rose, or some serial entreprenuer/misc luminary what proof do you have that you can outsell someone who can program?

(hypothetically if this is the case:) it's really hard to convince someone of your value if you can't even sell it to an angel or vc, and have cash as proof

Have you ever seem most programmers give a presentation?

Enough said I think. :-)

Have you ever seem most managers give a presentation?

Enough said I think. :-)

Well,I wouldn't want a manager giving a presentation either. I'd want a sales guy.

Fair enough, but read the original comment. It talks about providing the idea, not the sales expertise.

that's a stereotype that not all programmers fall into... especially the ones that do it out of the necessity of seeing their idea come to life as opposed to love of puzzles alone

not all business people are too proud to step outside of their comfort zone and learn something new...

I didn't say all, I said most.

From my own observation, programmers can and do have a very difficult time both understanding what people are willing to pay for, and getting them to pay for it.

Some hackers are great salesmen, and a few business folk are decent programmers, but if you're going to use the painting analogy the way the GP did, you can't discount the act of selling as something that'll just happen.

"I didn't say all, I said most."

if you don't provide a counter example - it's almost the same as saying all

if you think most programmers are pizza box hermits, i think you need to spend some time with more of them. the stereotype has some basis in some parts of the country, but i think it's largely overblown

I'm not discounting the act of selling... it's just from my personal experience most business people aren't great at presenting or selling either - it's only a few (saying something is very different from doing - this relates to my view on ideas too), hence the need for proof (or your cash)

Why can't I upmod run4yourlives on this? There are no mod arrows on his comment?

Maybe you already did?

Maybe. (Damn you, short attention span.)

Sorry, I was just experimenting with my remote jedi mind trick on you.

PG should skip the co-founder requirement on you if you can pull off the DEMO on that one.

NO need for startup when I can use my powers for greater evil ;)

ecuzzillo, I've been running the marketing department of a well known retailer for 10 years. I think I have discovered a way to use data from social networking sites to enhance the models we've been using to analyse particular buying patterns. Obviously, I know a few people in the industry and everybody agrees that this idea has huge potential. I'm thinking of starting my own business to explore this further. Would you be willing to join me? I gather you are a great hacker with some maths and statistics skills, is that right? Oh you say you're not going to paint my picture... too bad. I guess I should learn Python ;-)

email me... contact info in my profile.

Sorry, this was just a parody. There are people who have valuable domain knowledge. They can develop not one idea but many. They know how to sell the idea because they can make the case on the basis of deep knowledge. They are credible in the eyes of investors and so on.

Sounds like Andy Warhol.

or Dale Chihuly (see http://www.paulgraham.com/marginal.html)

Thats what art galleries do, but they give the freedom to the artist and then decide whether the painting is "good" enough. This is more like contract work where someone would get payed to do murals or portraits and that too is commonplace. Also a webapp's popularity will mainly have to do with the quality of the idea and how well it is marketed and publicized, much of the programming necessary is relatively elementary.

Actually, that is almost exactly how the fine arts painting gallery circuit works.

Huh? Who said anything about money? Thehigherlife just said he had a good idea.