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Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by netrus on Monday June 17, 2013 @09:36AM (#5893022)
This has huge psychological implications, similar to not carrying a passport while crossing borders and paying with the same coins everywhere: All these measures help to get the feeling that Europe is indeed one place, one community. Weekend trips to other countries are not a privilege of the 1 percent over here, more like the top 30-50%. I love to see what is happening right now, and I'm confident it will survive any current crisis. Maybe without the UK, but continental Europe is sufficient great for me ;)
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by ed_blackburn on Monday June 17, 2013 @10:27AM (#5893321)
As you allude; unless you live in the UK where the media shove it down our throats that we're special and don't need that level of co-operation, integration and instead should leave the EU (and presumably be a de-facto additional US state).

For those of us in the UK that do visit Europe or wish to speak to people in Europe with Google Hangout, Skype etc. this is excellent news, as it presumably is for all Europeans.

Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by duiker101 on Monday June 17, 2013 @10:56AM (#5893524)
I'd like to disagree with you, it might be true that the media try to make you think you are special but the truth is different, I am an Italian that has recently moved to the UK and I found the transition EXCEPTIONALLY smooth. Really, it is like I moved to any other city in Italy, I had no problem with documents, registration or anything. You are welcome and is totally normal to move in/out.

EDIT: I speak of personal experience, I can't really talk too much about Eastern Europe people but I have met many people coming from there and I didn't hear any specific complains.

Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by rz2k on Monday June 17, 2013 @01:53PM (#5894701)
As an American who lived in Italy in the 90s, it was a notable difference to me that people are legally required to carry papers. US law descends from English Law, and as I understand it, the different legal philosophy from continental Europe includes ideas about whether you are a citizen by your own rights as a person or whether those rights are conferred from the state or at least somehow authenticated by the state. (I'm probably getting the language wrong)

Anyway, the distinction is abstract, and probably has few real world implications, but legal requirements to carry identification, or to register your official residence are among them. It is also an issue that comes up when people are confused outside the US why we have issues around voter ID laws.

Though I can't speak to the ease of relacting between EU countries as an EU citizen, I can imagine that the UK could give the impression of being more open just because you don't necessarily have to enter an imposing building with door buzzers to obtain registration which might feel like you are having to ask permission.

Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by kyriakos on Monday June 17, 2013 @11:59AM (#5893915)
I hear Romanian's and Bulgarian's don't get the same treatment (even though here in Cyprus without trying to stereotype they tend to abuse the system)
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by bad_user on Monday June 17, 2013 @03:56PM (#5895527)
This is an issue with the UK only and only for getting working permits. I'm not sure what kind of work permits though, as personally I would have no problem in getting hired by an UK company or finding a place to rent (I am Romanian); I guess it's for low-skilled jobs or something.

Also, starting with January 1st, 2014, this will no longer be an issue.

On people abusing the system, it happens. Don't worry though, as personally I'm not in a rush of moving or working in Cyprus, especially since the bank tax ;-)

Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by peteretep on Monday June 17, 2013 @12:29PM (#5894084)
As with 90% of discrimination issues, it's about socio-economic status. A stereotypical Italian is comparatively "rich", stereotypical Romanians and Bulgarians are "poor".
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by Bosence on Monday June 17, 2013 @11:46AM (#5893840)
I'd imagine it's a bit different from eastern Europe, sadly.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by ardit33 on Monday June 17, 2013 @01:12PM (#5894407)
I am from Albania (not part of EU, but trying to get in), and travel to Schengen treaty countries is easy. Just show with your passport and no visa is needed. Working and long term stay is another matter.

For the UK, and some countries that are not part of the accord, I do need to have a visa, and it is PITA. It usually involved going to embassy, paying some fee, providing documents, convincing the consular you are not doing anything shady, or going to overstay, or whatever. Not fun, especially if you are just trying to do a few days short visit.

Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by visarga on Monday June 17, 2013 @12:12PM (#5893985)
Actually Eastern Europeans can travel easily wherever they desire with a passport or a national ID card, no need for visas. Some countries are not using the Euro though, and it has protected them from the economic crisis to a degree.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by raverbashing on Monday June 17, 2013 @01:12PM (#5894411)
Yes

I'm an UE citizen, and nowadays moving countries is almost like moving cities (Schengen Agreement is still a little bit different than the UE).

Except for the language, of course!

Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by morganwilde on Monday June 17, 2013 @09:38AM (#5893035)
As far as I'm concerned, this is bigger than the freedom of physical movement within the EU country borders. Now our data will move with us!
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by bad_user on Monday June 17, 2013 @10:37AM (#5893385)
The two are tightly related, although physical movement is more important because in absence of it you waist a lot of time to get a Visa and there's always the possibility that you might not get it, whereas with roaming charges it's only a matter of convenience and price.

Btw, whenever I travel within EU one of the first things I do after landing would be to get a PrePay card. In European countries PrePay offers are really good and sometimes better than PostPay contracts.

If anything, I fear that this will favour an oligopoly of the big ones, like Vodafone and Orange, with no real benefit to me, a user accustomed with searching for good local PrePay offers.

Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by ronaldx on Monday June 17, 2013 @11:37AM (#5893769)
Yes: of course this benefits large, incumbent service providers.

Smaller providers will find it difficult to compete now that they are obliged to offer the same level of service, at the same cost, to people travelling throughout the EU.

This ultimately excludes the possibility of cheaper local services: I find it a surprising move from the EU who should act to prevent anti-competitive practices.

Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by Bosence on Monday June 17, 2013 @11:53AM (#5893874)
There's nothing saying that they have to provide coverage, just the same price.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by ronaldx on Monday June 17, 2013 @06:10PM (#5896310)
A new upstart has Hobson's choice between: - being price-fixed locally by Vodafone's pan-European wholesale prices and therefore being unable to compete effectively.

or: - forbidding customers roaming coverage and therefore being unable to compete effectively.

Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by _delirium on Monday June 17, 2013 @09:46AM (#5893071)
I don't think I'd go that far! It's an added convenience, but my data already moves with me through the EU, since non-phone internet access (coffee shops, libraries, McDonald's, 7-11, hotels, etc.) is pretty widespread.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by bergie on Monday June 17, 2013 @11:02AM (#5893549)
In my experience, public WiFi access has been getting more scarce. This is probably caused by the combination of cheaper and more widespread 3G, and the FUD from record labels that people will use your access point for child porn, and you'll go to jail.

Currently I usually buy a prepaid data SIM if I travel to another European country. But this is a bother if you're going to be there just for a day or two.

Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by dagw on Monday June 17, 2013 @10:02AM (#5893158)
Widespread in some major cities. Last month I visited some family in a small town in Germany, and the only WiFi available was at the hotel, and it was not free.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by _delirium on Monday June 17, 2013 @10:04AM (#5893173)
Yeah, I'm learning that Germany is an exception. It's not just major cities in the rest of Europe, though. In Sweden you can find free wifi even in small towns, because every 7-11 and every McDonald's in the whole country provides it, not to mention most coffee shops and libraries.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by bilch on Tuesday June 18, 2013 @03:19AM (#5898010)
Germany is an exception because there is an actual law that says you're liable if someone else uses your wifi for shady purposes. That's why our routers are password protected out of the box and almost no one will offer open, let alone free wifi. I heard from a hotel owner that this is not just a theoretical danger; he'd paid a high fine once and decided not to offer free wifi any longer.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by venomsnake on Tuesday June 18, 2013 @07:33AM (#5898571)
Hmm heavy adoption of project loon in Germany expected.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by lmm on Monday June 17, 2013 @03:59PM (#5895550)
Sweden is exceptionally socialist even by European standards. I can well believe free wifi would be common there, and in the rest of scandinavia, but not in "mainland" Europe.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by _delirium on Monday June 17, 2013 @08:05PM (#5896759)
I suppose I don't see how multinational corporations like McDonald's or 7-11 providing wifi has a socialist angle to it. Isn't that more just the free market operating? They offer wifi because they think it brings in business, and the Scandinavian countries have fairly free markets that don't stand in their way when they want to do so. The German-style regulations discouraging establishments from offering wifi through onerous regulations seem to be the more statist outliers.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by lmm on Tuesday June 18, 2013 @04:52AM (#5898221)
Successful multinational corporations adapt their model to fit local cultures. The socialist culture in Scandanavia means people expect and reward businesses that offer free wifi; McDonald's/7-11 do it to remain competitive. I doubt it's the regulatory environment that makes the difference between Germany and Sweden - Sweden is also quite strongly regulated. And in other European countries where there is low regulation but an absence of socialist tradition (e.g. Italy) you don't see a whole lot of free wifi (or didn't when I was last there).
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by ripperdoc on Tuesday June 18, 2013 @11:06AM (#5899624)
As a Swede, I really don't see the connection between free WiFi and socialism here. First, I haven't really perceived that Sweden has THAT much free wifi. And in Asia, free WiFi is everywhere, and no socialists as far as I can see (North Korea don't have much WiFi at all, unfortunately).
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by lmm on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @05:51AM (#5904647)
Maybe "socialism" is too specific, but there's an American culture of individualism that you find to a certain extent in Italy/France/Spain that's absent in much of Asia. Germany is... different. I guess any attempt to reduce cultures to a single dimension is probably futile.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by skrause on Monday June 17, 2013 @09:52AM (#5893103)
It seems that you haven't traveled to Germany yet. Public Wifi is barely available because of legal risks and hotels still try to charge you something like 10 euro for a day of internet access. When I went to Dublin in Ireland the situation was almost as bad.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by bergie on Monday June 17, 2013 @11:03AM (#5893561)
On the hotel WiFis, the rule of thumb seems to be that the more expensive the hotel, the costlier and crappier the WiFi will be.

Most cheap family-run hotels and all hostels have free and good WiFi.

Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by markhacker on Monday June 17, 2013 @11:48PM (#5897405)
This. Hostels world-wide in allegedly 3rd world countries regularly have free wifi - and fast! Yet in the UK, Australia and New Zealand, first-world western countries, free-wifi is rubbish or non-existent on the whole.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by _delirium on Monday June 17, 2013 @09:59AM (#5893138)
Interesting; I indeed haven't traveled to Germany. The internet situation has been pretty good in the eight European countries I've been to recently, though: Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Greece, Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, France. In a number of them the government even provides easy-to-find free internet (any library in Paris or Copenhagen, the main public spaces of Helsinki or Heraklion, and so on).
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by r00fus on Tuesday June 18, 2013 @03:00AM (#5897961)
I believe the reasoning is solid: most high-priced consultants and business travelers stay at decent hotels, and the $10/day is an easily expensed item.

Sucks for those of us who also like higher end hotels for personal travel, though.

Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by jdotjdot on Tuesday June 18, 2013 @09:30AM (#5899001)
Actually the trend these days is aircards... Never even get as far as checking out the hotel wifi.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by morganwilde on Monday June 17, 2013 @10:06AM (#5893182)
Yes, OK, if you travel to a country with Starbucks, you can walk 10 minutes (if you're in central London or other bigger cities) or 30-60 minutes to the nearest one. But we live in the smartphone age, I want to be able to use all my apps everywhere I go, the way I'm used to back home. What's the point of all those hyper local apps if you need an immobile wi-fi connection to access them.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by ValentineC on Monday June 17, 2013 @10:18AM (#5893273)
Certain Starbucks branches in some countries don't have free wifi. (I know for a fact that the one 100m away from me right now doesn't.)
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by omegant on Monday June 17, 2013 @10:52AM (#5893501)
Starbucks at Berkeley St. in London doesn´t have free wifi, you have to buy credit. I don´t know the rest of the starbucks in London are the same..
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by CWIZO on Monday June 17, 2013 @06:16PM (#5896344)
So far I haven't found any starbucks that wouldn't have free wifi in London. Well, apart from the small wooden one at the Liverpool street station enterance (but that is to be expected sincie it's a, well, a wooden box:)
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by 4ad on Monday June 17, 2013 @12:44PM (#5894201)
You need a passport (or other form of government issued-ID), you don't need a visa.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by darklajid on Monday June 17, 2013 @01:53PM (#5894692)
I guess the biggest change is: Nobody's checking it.

I travel without lining up in front of a police guy, showing my passport. A border is sometimes easy to miss.

Took two girls from the US to the meeting point of DE, NL and BE after Fosdem a couple years back. It's .. boring. Taking a picture there seems .. worthless. Yes, more or less just a step away from each of these countries and still - so what? No one cares, you can cross freely.

And boring is good for these things, in my book.

Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by Someone on Monday June 17, 2013 @04:30PM (#5895733)
That isn't that different from 40 years ago. The Dutch-Belgian border has been technically open since 1944 (the BeNeLux as a customs union dates from then; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelux. In practice, the border will have opened a bit later, as World War II was still going on)

The Dutch-German border was closed, but in practice, outside main roads, there were only roaming border controls. The tripoint of Germany-Belgium-the Netherlands lies on a hill without main roads, so one could cross the border freely there even in the 1960's.

Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by david_p on Monday June 17, 2013 @12:48PM (#5894236)
Any valid ID (free) vs. a Passport (86 euros, in France) makes a huge difference to many people I believe !
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by 4ad on Monday June 17, 2013 @01:18PM (#5894458)
In Romania IDs are not free either :-). If you come from an underdeveloped country (precisely where the cost of a passport can pose a problem) you'll soon find out that many EU countries won't let you in only with a national ID; they want a passport. For Romanian/Bulgarian/etc citizens roaming through Europe without a passport is not a very smart move, even if you go to countries that accept only the ID.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by TillE on Monday June 17, 2013 @01:41PM (#5894600)
You may technically be required to carry an ID, but at least on the train nobody's checking it.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by 4ad on Monday June 17, 2013 @02:08PM (#5894807)
Depends on the country, try to travel to or from Romania or Bulgaria next time ;). Not only that they check the ID, but they sometimes check the baggage as well, and when they do that it's a sign that they will find something and cause you trouble unless you discretely pass them 25EUR...
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by Nux on Monday June 17, 2013 @04:12PM (#5895618)
As a Romanian national who has used the train extensively I cannot testify to that. Not once was I asked for an ID and the "25EUR" (usually much less) is for when you don't have a ticket; though I notice the "practice" diminishing.
Re:European roaming charges will end in 2014 by ekianjo on Tuesday June 18, 2013 @04:55AM (#5898236)
Too bad this occurs when the Eurozone is taking the plunge :) There may not be an unique currency still left in Europe 10 years down the road.