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Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by danso on Thursday May 30, 2013 @12:54AM (#5791000)
> As a host, it is up to me to choose who I allow in my home. I like that I can decide how many requirements to place on my guests. Should I choose to place strict requirements, I get more protection and probably fewer bookings. I like having the choice. Airbnb just took the choice away from me and I’m not happy about it.

Before we get into arguments about the validity of libertarianism...I think it shouldn't be shocking that when a company becomes large (with more at stake), they have to act in ways that will be overbearing in comparison to what they were before.

The quoted complaint above could easily apply to, let's say, the Apple iOS store, in which decisions are made heavily in favor of playing it safe and clean. I would like to argue that I'm wise enough to make my own choices about downloading immoral/unpleasant apps...and I'm entitled to make that argument. However, I can't argue that this...ahem, proactive policy prevents a great many shit-fests that might otherwise arise were it not in place. And I really can't dispute that Apple so far been wildly successful in the app marketplace.

Likewise, from Airbnb's perspective, I can see why they've made the calculation that proactively preventing scammers is overall, a good business decision. Because a few disasters from slightly foolish customers is enough to doom the entire ship.

Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by bradleyjg on Thursday May 30, 2013 @01:14AM (#5791045)
How exactly does a LinkedIn or Facebook profile, much less a personal video, prevent scammers? All three of those are trivial to fake. On the other hand a public feedback system with persistent identities, which they already have is harder to game.

No, this is a ham fisted marketing initiative pretending to be about security. Why they didn't just buy 'likes' with coupons like every other scummy company out there, I don't know.

Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by lbarrow on Thursday May 30, 2013 @01:25AM (#5791077)
It's actually not super easy to fake a Facebook or LinkedIn presence. Most services that use social media presence as an identity check ask questions like:

1. How long has your account been active?

2. Does your account have a human-like pattern of activity?

3. Do your social graphs overlap realistically? Are you Facebook friends with your LinkedIn connections?

Etc. It'd take an extremely patient scammer to fake that sort of data. It can be done, of course, it's not trivial.

Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by lessnonymous on Thursday May 30, 2013 @02:35AM (#5791244)
My "Social Graph" between Facebook and LinkedIn is approximately 2. One is for social networking, the other for professional. So if they think there's any good to come from comparing the two, there's going to be a lot of people like me for whom it Just Doesn't Work.
Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by roel_v on Thursday May 30, 2013 @04:30AM (#5791479)
More likely, there will be a few people like you for whom it Just Doesn't Work. Which is fine, as a company you need to decide on which customers you want to take on, and outliers generally aren't worth the trouble (nothing personal).
Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by drharris on Thursday May 30, 2013 @08:50AM (#5792133)
No, I think "a lot" is more accurate. I have only 3 crossovers. I do not FB friend my coworkers, and I do not LinkedIn random FB friends. One is social, one is professional, and I think quite a few people use it that way. Not all of us consume social networking like a buffet.
Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by roel_v on Thursday May 30, 2013 @12:25PM (#5793425)
OK sorry if this reply sounds like I'm nerdraging, it's because I am - don't take it personal, it happens so often here nowadays that sometimes I can't hold it back any more.

Can we please please please stop with the 'anecdote of 1 = data' and 'I do it like this and so do my friends (who are self-selected to be as much like me as possible)' arguments. It does not matter what you do, nor does it matter what you think. Businesses have much more data on this than the vast majority of HN readers, and while it's nice to think that they're all stupid in the 'I am so much smarter' sense, it is most likely not true. If Airbnb had, over the course of testing their validation approach against the first let's say 1000 users found out that the majority had little to no overlap in their social graphs between social networks, do you think they would keep using it this way? Clearly the answer is no, which leads to the prima facie conclusion that your generalization of your own behavior to the population at large is flat-out wrong. I'm not saying there is no way it could be that indeed most people have little overlap, just that the evidence we have so far, plus some reasonable thinking, points to the other conclusion.

Of course, if you do have (or can point to) data (i.e., not anecdotes, not 'I think', but hard data, obtained in a methodologically sound way) to the contrary, that would be a valuable addition to this discussion. All these "I don't do it like that so it sucks!" replies are just noise, and that was (in a passive-aggressive way) one of the underlying points in my reply.

Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by jdbernard on Thursday May 30, 2013 @05:18PM (#5795308)
Your argument is based on tenuous reasoning predicated on the assumption that you know how the Airbnb people are thinking and how they intend to use the data. The other argument is based on the assumption that there are probably other people who use Facebook and LinkedIn in a similar fashion (I am another data point). I do not see how your argument carries any more weight than theirs. It certainly fails the hard evidence test you put forth.
Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by jfoster on Thursday May 30, 2013 @09:40AM (#5792381)
Patient scammer, or a bot which can read captchas and simulate human-like activity and create networks with graphs that overlap realistically. Facebook might catch that a suspicious new community with no previous presence has emerged, though.

On the whole I agree with you. Until the bot I described actually exists, social profiles are a pretty good identity check. No reason not to use them whilst they're still worth something.

Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by notahacker on Thursday May 30, 2013 @02:50PM (#5794428)
About a quarter of Facebook friend requests I've received this year are from bots/fakes, mostly with pretty realistic-looking profiles, and I'm sure a fair number of them can be bought by any interested bidder.

It stretches credulity to suggest Facebook and LinkedIn are better ID checks than reviews from paying AirBnB users, which is what AirBnB's position seems to be.

Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by mseebach on Thursday May 30, 2013 @07:39AM (#5791894)
More relevantly, does your friend/connections also connect to other people, and is the graph an "island" or is it securely attached to "the cloud" (a term SixDegrees.com used back in the day to describe the big, central cluster of connections)
Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by bradleyjg on Thursday May 30, 2013 @12:49PM (#5793588)
They don't insist on both logins, so point 3 at least is out.

Besides which they have your credit card on file. Why not just match that up with the scanned in driver's licence / passport?

Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by gregr401 on Thursday May 30, 2013 @01:22AM (#5791070)
The premise of the issue isn't that they are 'proactively preventing scammers', more to the joke that apparently Facebook and LinkedIn offer any level of verification other than enabling potential tunnels to data mine a users social connects. As mentioned towards the bottom of the article, there are plenty of eVerification services avail that minimize the potential for data about an account holder.

To note, the way airbnb has rolled this out is quite surprising (mandatory sampling of users, disrupting active reservations, etc). Starting to wonder if there are any decent competitors out there.

Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by brightsize on Thursday May 30, 2013 @11:12PM (#5796627)
German clone of Airbnb, Wimdu: http://www.wimdu.com/ I almost booked with Wimdu in the past but was put off by the fact that they didn't escrow the security deposit. I was expected to hand it over to the host when I arrived, and in theory get it handed back to me when I left. I hope that Wimdu has fixed this.
Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by stratosvoukel on Thursday May 30, 2013 @08:49AM (#5792129)
Imo being able to choose your clients/guests (they pay you after all) however you like is immoral and it would be illegal if it was done from a hotel/ apartment rental company ... (at least in a lot of European countries). You should not be able to profile your customers in any way. If you dont like it, dont make money out of your apartment.
Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by burgreblast on Thursday May 30, 2013 @09:32AM (#5792340)
EXACTLY. Simply imagine Holiday Inn or Hilton demanding we verify ourselves before renting a room. Who among you would defend them?
Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by mbreese on Thursday May 30, 2013 @11:58AM (#5793248)
Um... they kinda do. You either need to provide a credit card or large cash deposit (if that's even possible anymore). Very often they will also require to see your driver's license. If you're foreign, you'll need to let them copy your passport too.
Re:Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned by stratosvoukel on Thursday May 30, 2013 @01:56PM (#5794055)
I cant speak for your country/experience , but as in Greece you have to verify yourself :)