News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
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Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by AndrewDucker on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @05:56AM (#5703860)
1) Some people enjoy researching it. Therefore it adds to their lives.

2) Some people enjoy knowing about it. The researchers therefore add to these people's lives too.

3) Pure research frequently turns out to have an application later - numerous branches of pure mathematics later turn out to have applications. New knowledge is added to the toolkit we can use to understand the world.

Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by brey on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @07:13AM (#5704097)
entirely in agreement with 3)

I know you were answering the question as written, but IMO 1) and 2) are out of place in a discussion about 'value', with the implied context of 'and why are we spending public money on this useless rubbish?'.

you may as well replace 'learning about number theory' with 'windsurfing'. sure, it adds to their lives, but it's only the public good that has an impact on the discussion.

Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by JabavuAdams on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @09:33AM (#5704684)
Why do we build concert halls and stadiums? There's this thing called "culture"... It's hard to define, but you know when it's missing.
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by saraid216 on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @05:56PM (#5708602)
(Note, the original question was deleted, so I can't see context.)

The public good most certainly includes the good of the people doing it, though. The notion that those who act on behalf of the public good must commit a sacrifice of their own, individual good is simply wrong.

Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by ocharles on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @06:17AM (#5703929)
The most famous quote for this is by G. H. Hardy, a famous number theorist. He said:

"No one has yet discovered any warlike purpose to be served by the theory of numbers or relativity, and it seems unlikely that anyone will do so for many years."

Yet here we are a few decades later with the fundamentals of modern cryptography based on number theory results. Specifically, the difficult in factorizing the product of two primes into the original prime factors (RSA).

So while this specific might seem abstract and without purpose, it often goes in mathematics that we'll find the purpose for it later.

Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by smutticus on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @06:45AM (#5704014)
In Sid Meier's Civilization you can only build catapults after you research mathematics.
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by saraid216 on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @06:00PM (#5708633)
http://hwhelp.s3.amazonaws.com/hwhdocs/The%20Math%20Behind%2... [PDF]

Pythagoras: why we throw giant rocks at walls.

Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by Sharlin on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @07:03AM (#5704061)
And those fancy JDAMs and other GPS-guided toys wouldn't be nearly as accurate if GPS did not account for the effects of both the special and the general relativity.
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by brazzy on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @07:24AM (#5704141)
That's physics, not mathematics (let alone number theory).
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by droogie on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @09:30AM (#5704667)
Mathematics purists would disagree http://xkcd.com/435/
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by Sharlin on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @09:39AM (#5704715)
I referred to the fact that Prof. Hardy specifically mentioned relativity in the quote.
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by altcognito on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @08:21AM (#5704381)
But sometimes we discover the math to support we discover the physics. Knowing the physics alone is less useful (but not useless) than knowing the underlying mathematical relationship of the physics.
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by snowwrestler on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @01:55PM (#5706683)
One of my favorite short science fiction stories is about inter-dimensional warfare in which numbers are the weapons.

Dark Integers by Greg Egan

http://www.asimovs.com/_issue_0710/Dark.shtml

Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by ColinWright on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @05:52AM (#5703849)
The material on which RSA is based was once thought completely useless, studied for interest alone. You never know when things like this may turn out to be useful.
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by lclarkmichalek on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @06:17AM (#5703931)
I'd recommend A Mathematician's Apology for a defense of number theory by someone who was quite prominent in the field. It's slightly dated ("No one has yet discovered any warlike purpose to be served by the theory of numbers or relativity, and it seems unlikely that anyone will do so for many years."), but a lot of it is still relevant, or at very least, interesting.
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by ocharles on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @07:59AM (#5704279)
Whether or not it's relevant, I still second the recommendation to read this book - it's a great read :)
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by Trufa on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @06:08AM (#5703896)
First of all you have to understand that when something is not solved, it's in human nature to try to find a way to solve it, that said, it is also hard to know the implications of a new discovery/demonstration.

That said, prime numbers are a very important and discussed topic in math, they also have high implications on computer systems since prime numbers are at the core of many secure systems' implementations.

So, when we know something new about primer numbers, new doors may open concerning the generation of prime numbers or the detection of prime numbers, basically it's just that a small step in knowledge, let's see where it takes us.

Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by brey on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @05:59AM (#5703870)
of itself, probably nothing.

asking this question is somewhat like driving to your mother's house, looking out the window on the way and asking, "Why the hell am I on a freeway onramp? I didn't want to be here, I want to be at my mother's house!"

academic discovery is a journey, building on top of the progress made by others along the way. not all points along that route have intrinsic value.

public-key crypto has incredibly high real-world value. most of the things learnt by number theory researchers building up to RSA's discovery - not so much.

Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by raverbashing on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @06:06AM (#5703889)
What does this electron circling an atomic nucleus adds to our lives? It's purely theoretical

What does this adding numbers that only can be zero or one add to our lives? It's purely theoretical

What does this imaginary number things and the square root of negative numbers adds to our lives? It's purely theoretical

Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by terhechte on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @06:11AM (#5703910)
It would be nice to take a common gadget, say an iPhone or an Android phone, and split it up into small bits and pieces (including software) and then list all the pieces which are based upon a theory or research which decades ago was considered irrelevant and useless. I.e. all the findings which make up an iPhone, but where decades ago people would have said 'what does this add to our life'. What I can think of, right now, is

- Cryptography (iCloud, iMessage, Online Banking): Is all based on prime numbers. For hundreds of years, prime number theory in math was considered a purely academic exercise, something with no real world usage at all. And suddenly it is the basis of many things we consider granted. [1]

[1] http://www.claymath.org/posters/primes/

Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by willvarfar on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @05:51AM (#5703843)
One example of the applicability of number theory is cryptography.
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by laumars on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @06:14AM (#5703917)
Pure mathematics has a habit of trickling down to real world applications.

Sometimes that influence is direct, as seen with cryptography. In fact much of the worlds security is based on prime numbers. eg HTTPS (SSL / TLS) uses RSA.

Sometimes that influence is indirect. Such as math theorems that are applied to physics. Which in turn lead to real world products (eg faster processors, GPS, etc).

Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by dingfeng_quek on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @06:32AM (#5703974)
You ask: 1. Is X good? How is it good? 2. Is it entirely separate from reality?

While you might think of it as a simple question, you asked it in the general sense, without any context. In the general sense, these are two central questions in 2 separate domains of philosophy. 1. Ethics/Moral Philosophy 2. Dualism (philosophy of mind). Neither has a simple answer, although you could start form Wikipedia or the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

Furthermore, the idea and enterprise of science and math is complex. It's not familiar to the layman. Instead, try approaching the question with more familiar ideas:

Think of a person who doesn't use Facebook at all. 1. What does Facebook add to his life? 2. As far as he can see, Facebook is a purely virtual social network, isn't it? 3. Why is it worth everyone's time to check/use Facebook?

Think about it from the perspective of a non-Facebook user. Perhaps one of the tribesmen in Africa should you know any.

Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by martin-adams on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @05:51AM (#5703841)
Because any new discovery could open up possibilities that we don't yet understand?
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by andreaja on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @05:49AM (#5703833)
Because it's there :)
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by xenophanes on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @06:04AM (#5703882)
In addition to what other people said, some of the methods used to approach the problem may be reused on other problems.
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by glenjamin on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @05:54AM (#5703853)
This question prompts the discussion - which can be a good thing, please don't just downvote because you disagree.
Re:Every odd number greater than five is the sum of three pr... by shardling on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @06:05AM (#5703887)
On the other hand, it's a discussion I've seen over and over and over again. And it's not actually specific to this particular link at all, so it would be reasonable to downvote if you feel the discussion is out of place.

And you'll note that currently, ~90% of the comments in this thread are in response to the question -- it's something of an attractive hazard.