I did -- your thoughts are incongruent. If you're trying to improve health and food costs "in general", "generally applicable" ideas ought to be presented. If I said you can cut your power bill and improve your health by installing bicycle-generators in your house, it glosses over the facts

  1) you're going to need a battery array

  2) a collection of bicycles and the requisite generator equipment

  3) ability and time to run the generator

  4) can deal with the inconvenience of perhaps not having "instant-on" power

  5) live in any place where this is both practical and desirable, for some definitions of "practical" and "desirable"

> And yes, I've built computers from scratch

On HN this probably isn't so surprising, but in the general populace, I think this sort of thing is considered wizardry. It's not practical for most people.

> but you can buy a refurbished one complete for $190 at Best Buy

I agree enthusiastically. (though I'd personally hit up Craigslist for an old Thinkpad). I think this (and your above points) touch on something I'm passionate about too: I see what I think is a lot of entitlement and laziness in the world I live in. People want too much, and don't want to "work" for it -- not that they don't have jobs, but that they expect needs to be fulfilled by passing a credit card over the counter.

I think we may not be too different: My car is a 40 year old Volkswagen that I got for a fraction of the $$ that my friends pay for their autos. I happen to familiar with the air-cooled VW quirks and limitations and live within them. I also do my own engine work and maintenance. I feel good about keeping another car out of the landfill. The $$ cost, though, is a fraction of what I pay. Other costs include

1) Occasional valve adjustment, points/timing adjustment, etc

2) Driving in a constant state of awareness wrt the machine that I'm operating; I listen to the engine, transmission, wheel hubs, and monitor my gauges more than any typical driver I know.

3) My car is slow. My trips take longer. I have to drop to second gear on steep hills.

4) I sometime have real mechanical issues. I've repaired a fuel injector on a road trip. On another, I ran on 3 cylinders until I found a garage and then helped the mechanic work on it, scavenging parts from an old Beetle behind the garage.

I happen to be pretty happy with my automobile situation, but would I recommend Joe Commuter do it to save $$ on the up-front purchase of an automobile? Never. I think it'd be insulting. It's overwhelming for the problem, and therefore doesn't really advance anything. It doesn't help Joe Commuter. Like when people discuss the cost of food and you suggest "Here's $40 worth of seeds. With this you've got vegetables for a year -- get to work."

That said, again, I think we're appreciating the same things.

Yeah, that's a really easy mistake to make. Happened to me too, last year. "Zuchini seeds ten plants for ten cents? I'm going to save SO MUCH MONEY!" I thought. Then I realized: A box big enough to grow a single zucchini plant in: €7. Yep, big planters are crazy expensive. Enough soil to grow a healthy zucchini plant: €5. Yep, you do need the entire bag if you want actual fruits instead of a pretty but useless flower.

Time to drive to the garden market, buy planters, plant them, and water the plants: Maybe two hours altogether.

So now you're at €12,10 for, IDK, maybe a dozen zucchini over the season. Not really a steal, but hey, organic food! Still worth it, right?

Then my zucchini got bugs and died. €12,10 and two hours of effort wasted.

"Yep, that happens when you grow vegetables inside. Should have put them on the balcony", my gardener friends said, nodding wisely. Know many poor people with nice big south-facing balconies?

I've in the past also failed miserably at sunflowers, and let's not even talk about the slow miserable death of my tragic attempt at salad. Now, I keep trying to grow food because I have the time and money to waste, and a shed to store all those big planters in during the winter. But if I were trying to cheaply feed my family, this sure as hell isn't a hobby I could afford.