> Oh, Christ. Start-up wankery has its place, but something to keep in mind: there's nothing that makes working for a start-up the be-all, end-all of a meaningful life.

I work for a giant corporate behemoth, I just so happen to love my job. :)

> You complain about people just wanting to exist and live and enjoy time with their friends and family? And that they don't have grand dreams of starting a business, running it, doing a bunch of shit that's secondary to their actual interests?

The thing is, they don't even think that far ahead.

If they wanted to live the standard "get a job, get married, get a house" sort of thing, I can understand that, but so many young adults aren't even thinking that far into the future.

> Not everyone can be a special snowflake, and that's fine. Some people want to work a 9 to 5 job and then head home to cook dinner with their loved ones. In the past that's been possible, but increasingly for our generation it's becoming harder and harder. And that's a societal failure.

Bullshit at the last part. Those of us with passion are pushing the envelope every day. We will continue to automate and refine and improve efficiency. It is not a societal failure, society is changing.

Go back 120 years. "Some people just want to work the field, go inside to their wife and kids, and relax. Not go to the city, start work in a factory and claw their way up to management."

Go back thousands of years.

"Some people don't want to have to settle down on a farm and work a field, they just want to migrate with the herds like they have always done."

Those who have ambition forever change society itself.

Oh, come now, scarmig. All he was saying is that many in our peer group don't have a plan. And they blame others for their lack of a job and for their lack of a life they find meaningful--rather than going out and doing something about it.

I, for one, agree with him because that's what I've observed: numerous 20-somethings working at dead-end, menial jobs after graduation because they didn't adequately prepare for something more demanding. And many of them aren't thrilled to be merely subsisting. They want more, but they don't know how to get it, and they don't really own the responsibility for doing so anyway.

Somehow at some point they got the mistaken impression that if they got a degree they'd graduate, and be instantly awarded with that six-figure 9-5 job. And they'd live happily ever after.

So yeah, for that group they're a little disappointed to graduate and discover that the median income of someone with a bachelor's degree (as I recall) is $40,000/yr. And if they have an especially common degree and especially mediocre academic performance perhaps they can't even get that job. Oh, and they are surprised to discover they have to work their butts off to find ANY job, and then that most jobs are just "work" not "play."

I have no aspiration to necessarily work for a start-up or work 60 hours a week. But I do have a plan, and I do take responsibility for making my life what I want it to be. I have goals and aspirations and a long-term plan how to accomplish them. Most of our peers do not.

My hope is to be able to make a decent living (say $50,000/yr) working 25-30 hours a week so I can spend lots of time on my own interests and with my family. So I didn't hear him saying that we all have to want to work for start-ups or work 60 hours a week or anything. He was merely pointing out that many of our peers don't know what they want, or how to get it on top of being unemployed or underemployed...and they blame others for their situation rather than taking responsibility for their life.

> And many of them aren't thrilled to be merely subsisting. They want more, but they don't know how to get it, and they don't really own the responsibility for doing so anyway.

If you mean by that "aren't willing to do anything -at all- to achieve, well, anything really" then I agree with you.

> My hope is to be able to make a decent living (say $50,000/yr) working 25-30 hours a week so I can spend lots of time on my own interests and with my family.

That's certainly achievable I would think. However, be prepared for a lot of rejection. 40 (not 60) hour weeks + actual effort (dare I say it ... drive) is not just a requirement at startups.

>Oh, Christ. Start-up wankery has its place, but something to keep in mind: there's nothing that makes working for a start-up the be-all, end-all of a meaningful life.

Yes and no.

I would argue that being a productive citizen that has much to give to others (kindness, companionship, food, money, etc.) is the fundamental mark of adulthood. I am blessed to live/work in a world where I can do that very well without horrendous scrambling, due to a successful and enlightened employer.

If such is a good thing, is not offering good employment under highly civilized working conditions to many adults an achievement worth great accolades?

Let's not forget that if everyone started their own business, we wouldn't have anybody to staff the large companies that create the things we actually use day-to-day.

Just take a moment to consider. I am sure startups are mind-bogglingly amazing, but did a startup make your car? Your computer? Did a startup pave the roads you drive on?

Startups are good. Big companies are good. We need both.