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Re:Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy by eropple on Monday April 29, 2013 @05:25AM (#5624971)
Yeah, I get you--I apologize to poster^3, I'm used to hearing that line out of people more interested in rationalization than anything else. That said, in my experience the assumption that each pirate is a lost sale went out the window about a decade ago. And the idea that it's only "1%" of pirates who'd have bought the game, on the other hand, is ridiculous on its face. There's about 10,000 seeds and leeches of the various Skyrim torrents on The Pirate Bay, do you seriously think that only 100 of them would pay for it?

(Most folks I know who deal with game piracy figure a hypothetical conversion rate around 20-25%, which, especially for companies of the article writer's size, is easily the difference between make or break.)

Re:Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy by belorn on Monday April 29, 2013 @05:44AM (#5625049)
20% sound ridiculous high, and I would ask where in the world of sanity that people got that number.

If we look at freemium to paid conversion rates, 20% seems out-of-this world large. Almost no one has that high. Looking around, 1% or 2.5% is said to be the average for games[1][2][3].

Why would a pirate be 10 times more likely to be incited to buy a game, rather than those who play a game designed from the ground up to encourage high conversion rates? It sound to me that logic demand that games with features designed for high conversion rates will do better than games that don't.

Ie, to sum up, the conversation rate for pirate->paying should be far less than 2.5% in average, and nowhere near 20%.

[1]: http://blog.scoutapp.com/articles/2009/11/04/running-a-freem...

[2]: http://www.gamesbrief.com/2011/11/conversion-rate/

[3]: http://www.gamesbrief.com/2013/03/arpdaus-conversion-rates-a...

Re:Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy by eropple on Monday April 29, 2013 @05:53AM (#5625074)
This line of thinking is what happens when you take barely overlapping populations and attempt to extrapolate between them. For a more related data-point that you can get from public data (because the 20-25% comment was inside baseball from folks I know personally), the average conversion rate across all titles on XBLA hovers around 18%. When you take into account the general demographics on XBLA versus something like Steam (where the folks I was referring to previously generally roll), a small bump from there doesn't strike me as overly conservative.

You can't really compare what amounts to a SaaS conversion rate to a purchase of a completely realized product with significant media presence (like, even indie games get a ton of eyeballs and an implicit seal-of-quality when they hit Steam or XBLA). It just doesn't shake out that way.

Re:Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy by belorn on Monday April 29, 2013 @06:29AM (#5625197)
Source for that 18% on XBLA?

Through, you don't answer the question on why games designed for high conversion rate should fair worse than games that aren't. You also add a additional questions when putting distinction to the population in question. Are we saying here that pirates are more likely to convert to a pay-to-play model than non-pirates are to go from a freemium model to pay? Whats the basis of such statement? All I see is a claim of inside knowledge, which in 2013 means as much (or little) as anecdotal evidence.

If all we have is unverified claims about high conversion rates, and in opposing side we have studies that shows low conversion rates for identical products, I will go with the study until proven different otherwise. I find the idea that the population in question would have a 2000% effect on the conversion rate, and that pirates are part of that group, to be a very large and unverified claim. The wilder a claim is, the more is it up the commenter to provide evidence to support it.

Re:Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy by eropple on Monday April 29, 2013 @01:50PM (#5627644)
> Source for that 18% on XBLA?

[1] says it was 18% in 2007. I very, very strongly doubt it's gone down. XBLA de-lists games with a Metacritic score below 65 (which is basically impossible) and a conversion rate below 6% (which is apparently really hard, huh?)[2]. Ken Lobb has referred to 20%-40% conversion rates for in-house games at MGS.

And you once again are bound and determined to ignore the differences between the markets you want to compare (hint: they're not identical products, they're not even substitutable products!), I think I'm going to bow out because there's no progress to be made here. HAND.

.

[1] - http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=15117

[2] - http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/22/underperforming-xbla-title...

Re:Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy by belorn on Monday April 29, 2013 @06:17PM (#5629219)
Funny, a statician would laugh at this discussion. XBLA remove games with lower than 6% conversion rates, and we are supposed to be surprised that their average is higher than in other markets? If XBLA removed anything below 6%, it has the exact definition of selection bias by only allowing the top ranking freemium games a place in the store.

This will sound rude, but are you trying to fool others are have you just fooled yourself? Comparing a restricted store which only allow a few marked freemium games, with the PC game market in general is ridicules. The article is about the PC market and PC pirates. Not only is the PC market massive bigger than the total of 588 titles since 2004 that XBLA has, but XBLA has less freemium games per title than the PC market has. They also have a different demographic. A XBLA users is average ages 22, is a causal gamer, and has a middle class income. The average PC pirate age is lower, has less exposable income, and preference more hardcore game.

There is no shareable trait between the PC pirate, and the XBLA market. Trying to present the PC market as if its somehow would be the limited selection of XBLA titles is just false. Presenting a small selection bias as representable for the game industry is just...