Sure she's a good tech blogger, but what does she look like?

Re:Sure she's a good tech blogger, but what does she look like? by neilk on Saturday April 11, 2009 @02:45PM (#557709)

I wouldn't put all those comments in the same category. I think some of these guys are trying to say that to them, a woman can be both intelligent and attractive. So it's a form of self-praise (I am this advanced, and in a post-feminist way) rather than trying to exclude women. That said, it does show that they are still thinking about women primarily as objects to be gazed upon, rather than say, a colleague to learn from or work with.

I don't know if that is fixable, or if the fix would be desirable. Corporate environments have stamped out a lot of overt sexism, mostly due to the fear of lawsuits. But they can't make people be truly non-sexist, so mostly they just train people to fear any reference to sex or sexuality. Meanwhile, people still hold sexist opinions, privately. The glass ceiling is still there.

And as for the charge that the Web 2.0 environment is a huge boy's club; as far as I can tell that's true.

I have no idea what I would do if I was female in this industry. Probably go do something else, which is what most of them end up doing. Google has the best deal for women who want stability, but obviously not everyone can work there. Maybe consulting, or start your own company.

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Re:Sure she's a good tech blogger, but what does she look like? by axod on Saturday April 11, 2009 @02:54PM (#557718)

>> "Meanwhile, people still hold sexist opinions, privately"

Most men are genetically programmed to enjoy looking at beautiful ladies. That makes them sexist... but there's not really any cure, and I do not see why we would want any cure.

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Re:Sure she's a good tech blogger, but what does she look like? by neilk on Saturday April 11, 2009 @03:02PM (#557724)

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Your idea of being non-sexist is mixed up with being non-sexual.

Sexism is discrimination. Sexuality is, what it is.

Since being non-sexual is an impossibility you conclude that sexism is permanent. To me that seems very wrong.

and I do not see why we would want any cure.

For the same reasons we might want cures for racism. Wasted human potential. Economic injustice.

I don't know how we get there, but somehow we have to have a world that's able to deal with sexuality but also not discriminate in the workplace on the basis of gender or attractiveness. Maybe better, objective metrics?

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Re:Sure she's a good tech blogger, but what does she look like? by axod on Saturday April 11, 2009 @03:43PM (#557765)

>> "Sexism is discrimination."

But our minds are programmed to discriminate. If a nice looking lady is doing a presentation on SSL, most mens brains will be in a struggle over what to concentrate on. Her body, or the content of the talk.

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Re:Sure she's a good tech blogger, but what does she look like? by TomOfTTB on Saturday April 11, 2009 @03:08PM (#557732)

Two things...

First, if you are going to make a distinction between sexism and sexuality than explain what the distinction is and not just your opinion of each thing.

Second racism, wasted human potential and economic justice don't help us continue to exist as a species.

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Re:Sure she's a good tech blogger, but what does she look like? by neilk on Saturday April 11, 2009 @03:17PM (#557740)

Sexism, at least in the workplace, is about: unequal rewards for work of equal value; hostile working environments that target individuals based on gender; and more besides.

Sexuality is so complex that I hesitate to define it here, but do you really think it necessarily includes paying a woman less, promoting them less, listening to them less? Or puerile insults?

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Re:Sure she's a good tech blogger, but what does she look like? by bdr on Saturday April 11, 2009 @03:02PM (#557725)

No, that does not make most men sexist. You can enjoy it without extrapolating that physical judgment into other domains. And even if you can't help that, which I doubt, you can certainly stop yourself from posting the kind of comments described in the article.

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Re:Sure she's a good tech blogger, but what does she look like? by axod on Saturday April 11, 2009 @03:30PM (#557752)

But exactly the same thing happens in other instances... "Awesome new image matching written in Java" --> "hahaha Java is so crap!!!"

If someone can't make a good argument, they look for other things to respond to - language choice, photo, silly sounding name, etc.

It's just a fact of life and I don't think anyone should take it personally.

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