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Re:India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement by hkmurakami on Saturday April 13, 2013 @04:16PM (#5544519)
>These people struggle (or think that they do..) for so long in the rat race that they forget that they have risen above it and gone far beyond that.

If these are people who have "made" the money themselves in their own generation, I can see why/how they still view themselves as middle class. It's a mindset.

I have had the fortune of getting to know many SV millionaires who grew up in modesty/poverty, and still buy shorts from Target and pinch pennies madly. They have their mansions and their fancy cars, but they're still bound by the mindset of their lower/middle class background where they fought ferociously and squeezed themselves and their financial abilities to get to where they are today.

As long as that mindset persists, even very wealthy people won't consider themselves to be "upper class".

Give it one or two generations though. Their kids and grandkids will probably behave and believe that they're upper class.

Re:India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement by coopdog on Saturday April 13, 2013 @07:04PM (#5545038)
I don't think it's just about money though. There's this entitled class who just fundamentally believe they are superior, the example from the article being the guy who threw over the fruit stall because the crowd wouldn't move.

It's actually a problem in Australia where we all sort of treat each other as equals, for example our hospitality classes won't scrape and bow and call you sir, and everyone is ok with that. Racism has started to emerge because the only Indians who can get to Australia are the rich ones. All it takes is a few bad interactions and people start to write off the entire race, when I'm sure that 99%+ of Indians are actually pretty damn nice people.

I just wonder if those new generations will be less cheap but more entitled than ever.

Re:India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement by makomk on Sunday April 14, 2013 @11:01AM (#5547043)
Wait, you're seriously arguing that Australia didn't have a racism problem until Indians reached there? Australia, where the Government systematically removed Aboriginal kids from their parents in an attempt to wipe out the Aboriginal communities? Where the police can and do still get away with grabbing Aboriginal people off the streets and dumping them in the middle of nowhere to die just for being the wrong race? That Australia?
Re:India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement by bradleyjg on Sunday April 14, 2013 @04:19AM (#5546301)
> Give it one or two generations though. Their kids and grandkids will probably behave and believe that they're upper class.

I don't know about India, but in the US there is a bizzare cultural phenomenon where everyone wants to see himself as middle class. Being identified as rich is somehow faintly embarrassing.

You see all kinds of strange verbal gymnastics in trying to justify middle class status. Heck there is plenty of it in this thread!

So I suspect that is going on with your wealthy friends, and that it will continue in thier kids and grandkids (unless the overall culture shifts).

Re:India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement by nonce42 on Sunday April 14, 2013 @12:21PM (#5547271)
The people who claim that $X million in Silicon Valley is still just middle class are annoying, but it's true. I have $8 million and it honestly changes very little. I'm living a middle class life, working a middle class programming job, my friends are middle class, I buy middle class stuff, and I have no special power or respect. I'm not sure how to convince you that this isn't just verbal gymnastics, but real.

There are a few advantages. One difference is I don't worry about how I'm going to pay for e.g. a $1000 car repair (but it's still painful). I'm also more likely to hire someone for maintenance or gardening. Also, I theoretically could quit my job and live off my investments, but that's unlikely to happen.

Of course this is partially a linguistic argument. If you define upper class as the top income quintile, for instance, than I'm upper class, but that's meaningless.

I do wonder if I'm doing things wrong, and there's some secret for admission to the upper class. Maybe I should start flying first class, buy a Ferrari, stop shopping at Target, and hang out with rich people. (Although I think that would just make me nouveau riche, not upper class.)

(My motivation in this comment is that these HN threads tend to be entirely speculation, and the semi-rich never comment, so I hope to provide a useful perspective.)

Re:India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement by bradleyjg on Monday April 15, 2013 @01:20AM (#5549900)
I agree it's definitional, so ultimately there isn't much to argue about.

What I wonder is what you think the upper class (as you define it) have that's so great or special that you don't. Sure you could cabin it so narrowly as to be people that e.g. get personal access to the President, or can get there kids into Harvard with a single phone call or something, but that definition is so narrow as to be useless (which gets back to the whole all Americans are middle class thing).

Having known several people with net worths in the 7-9 figure range, from brand new money through came over on the Mayflower, it really is a continuum. There's no secret handshake.

But that doesn't mean that somewhere along the continuum you really are living a different lifestyle than a family of four living in Northern California with both one parent working as a teacher and the other as a hygienist, each making $40,000 a year. They've got credit card balances, student loans, a long commute because that's where the affordable houses are, stress over how they are ever going to pay for college, and so on. You may shop at the same stores, but is that really a good indicator? Call what you have upper middle class if you feel like it, but that family is solidly middle class by any reasonable definition. So if there's a difference in kind, and someone has to give up the label, it shouldn't be them.

Finally, I should note that I find this little quirk of American culture fairly harmless. The one area where it can be pernicious is when it effects certain policy areas. For example, many people agree that the "rich" should be paying higher taxes, but since hardly anyone sees himself as rich, it is always a little farther out that the tax burden needs to fall. A good litmus test is the home mortgage income deduction, which is massively tilted to the high end of the income scale. If in justifying a high phase out you start to hear yourself say things like $1.5 million doesn't really buy you that much -- then you may be in the problematic zone.

Re:India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement by walshemj on Saturday April 13, 2013 @07:01PM (#5545026)
Actually the upper class in the UK are known for shabby chic ie wearing the same 2nd hand Barbour coat that smells of Labrador for 20+ years.
Re:India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement by wisty on Sunday April 14, 2013 @02:29AM (#5546119)
Yep. People who serve the upper class wear suits. When the upper class was the nobility, they wore piss-stained tweed (yes, it's actually manufactured with urine). Now they wear whatever they want.
Re:India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement by bbbhn on Saturday April 13, 2013 @11:01PM (#5545689)
WASPs in the US act similarly.