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Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by superuser2 on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @05:00PM (#5528127)
So you don't mind if I wiretap all your phones?

Email being transmitted by 3rd parties is not different from voice calls being transmitted by 3rd parties. Yes, you are trusting a provider, with the expectation that your provider will send the data where you've asked it to send the data, and nowhere else. This is still true whether you're talking postal service, landline voice calls, SMS, cellular voice calls, Skype, etc.

Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by sliverstorm on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @06:48PM (#5528743)
Maybe I'm expressing myself in too cryptic of a fashion. I'm simply asserting that while privacy and authentication sometimes overlap, they are not the same thing.

From the parent of my original comment:

Almost every SMTP server out there today requires authentication ... That is the very definition of trying to keep things private.

Do you disagree with me? Do you believe that SMTP authentication contributes to privacy and not authenticity?

Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by maratd on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @09:46PM (#5529424)
Hey, hey, what's with the "..." and cutting out the relevant parts? I explicitly mention SSL and TLS. Those are encryption standards that are designed exclusively for privacy.

If I am using them to communicate with a 3rd party, I have a reasonable expectation of privacy between myself and that 3rd party. You would most certainly need a warrant to turn around and try to get access to a message stored on their servers.

On top of that, quite a bit of email today doesn't even touch SMTP. If I'm sending an email from one GMail user to another GMail user, I'm pretty sure it is just shuffled around on Google's internal servers. And, of course, I'm connecting to Google using SSL, an encrypted connection.

How does that not scream private?

Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by sliverstorm on Thursday April 11, 2013 @12:51AM (#5530045)
Hey, hey, what's with the "..." and cutting out the relevant parts? I explicitly mention SSL and TLS. Those are encryption standards that are designed exclusively for privacy.

I cut out the SSL and TLS because I don't disagree; SSL and TLS certainly says "privacy". I wanted to specifically address the notion that "authentication =~ privacy"

Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by eruditely on Thursday April 11, 2013 @12:40AM (#5530019)
While you are making your point, you're being overly pedantic, and the point is irrelevant. Email should not be able to be accessed by a third party without warrant period. Whether or not the analogies line up.
Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by sliverstorm on Thursday April 11, 2013 @01:16AM (#5530111)
It may seem like pedantry, and it may not be directly applicable to the article, but it is a common security fallacy I wanted to call out.
Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @08:34PM (#5529159)
>Do you believe that SMTP authentication contributes to privacy and not authenticity?

Why can't it be both?

Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by delluminatus on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @11:49PM (#5529881)
Well, authentication simply doesn't provide any privacy. It just doesn't. However, SSL/TLS do, which are widely used -- but not authentication.
Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by superuser2 on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @05:50PM (#5528445)
So you're saying phone calls are only private because of a misguided adherence to tradition?
Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by qu4z-2 on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @08:49PM (#5529211)
He's not arguing against privacy; he's merely pointing out that requiring authentication to send emails isn't the same thing.
Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by rayiner on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @05:40PM (#5528396)
The protections for phone calls arose back when phone lines were dumb analog wires between telephones. E-mail has never been like that, and it's always involved storing communications on a third party's systems.
Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @08:39PM (#5529176)
>E-mail has never been like that, and it's always involved storing communications on a third party's systems.

Why should storing something on a third party's system obviate the need for a warrant? If I rent real property and use it to store my papers, does that mean the government should be entitled to seize them without a warrant because I'm storing them on the premises of a third party? If not, what's the difference?