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Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by Spooky23 on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @01:16PM (#5526530)
So by your reasoning, if I mail you a postcard, and you put the postcard in a locked container placed inside of the trunk of a rental car, it is OK for the police to bypass your access controls and read the postcard?

How you transmitted or handled something at a point in time is not relevant to it's status at rest.

This issue here is that the government asserts that email is a communications system only. The problem is that while it does enable people to communicate, it also serves as a filing system to many email users. The law as written in 1986 didn't forsee 25GB mailboxes on O365 or Google with the equivalent of many file cabinets worth of memos, etc.

Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by rayiner on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @01:55PM (#5526806)
Your analogy is completely inapt:

1) A rental car, like a rented house, is still under your control. But your e-mail account on Google's servers is under their control. They can do whatever they want with it. It's more like your friend letting you use part of his garage to store stuff--a third party still retains full control over the space.

2) As far as I can tell, Google can access your e-mail whenever it wants, so the "locked container" analogy also fails.

Again, I think the fact that Google/Microsoft/etc can scan your emails and documents to send you targeted ads is determinative here. If you're voluntarily exposing the contents of your documents to that process, how can you claim to have an expectation of privacy?

Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by Spooky23 on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @04:14PM (#5527828)
I pay Microsoft to host my email on my behalf so that I can consume the service. Just like I pay Avis for the use of a car or Hilton for use of a room. I don't own either, but are given controls to regulate acess (ie a key)
Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by nmcfarl on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:45PM (#5527163)
The interesting thing to me here is that the IRS is not claiming Google/Microsoft, it is claiming all email. Including that which is served by private servers that goes to other recipients on the same private servers.

The fact that you own the box that email was delivered to and that email never left that box has no bearing in the matter for the IRS. They still claim the right to inspect it, without a warrant.

Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by rayiner on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @03:10PM (#5527337)
You don't own your gmail inbox, you don't own your twitter account, you don't own your facebook account. Google, Twitter, and Facebook own them. You don't even rent them. Google, Twitter, Facebook, etc, fully own them and fully control them at all times, retaining the right to do whatever they want with them at any time.
Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by pyre on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @03:35PM (#5527522)
You just missed the point. The IRS is speaking to all email systems. If I have a private server in my private house, and I send another message to another user on the same server (i.e. local delivery only), then the IRS's claims still apply to that. I don't see how the Google/Twitter/Facebook come into play here.
Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by rayiner on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @04:05PM (#5527747)
I'm not sure how you can parse a phrase that starts "generally..." and read it as encompassing "all email systems." That's facially not what the IRS is saying.

Google, Twitter, etc, come into play because they are the kinds of communications the IRS is referring to--electronic communications stored on servers controlled wholly by unrelated third parties.

Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by rsync on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @03:52PM (#5527643)
The BIG difference is that you'll know about it, because the warrant will go to you. Not only will you know about it, but you can control the timeframe in which you respond as well as explore legal challenges and remedies. You will be in control of how things play out.

The IRS isn't going to break into your mail server.

People should really, really be running their own mail servers, and I suspect should be providing their own dialtone as well. The latter is certainly much more complicated and technical, but that level of control is a very nice thing to have.

Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by mcguire on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @04:23PM (#5527893)
"Including that [email] which is served by private servers that goes to other recipients on the same private servers."

Google, Twitter, Facebook, etc., don't enter into the situation.

Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by superuser2 on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @05:25PM (#5528312)
Because I know and expect that Google will use my emails to display targeted ads. And I also know that, under this process, my data remains in the custody of Google. I still fully expect Google not to send my data outside its servers, except to my recipient.
Re:IRS claims it can read your e-mail without a warrant by rayiner on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @05:49PM (#5528443)
The 4th amendment does not restrain the government from looking at any information you don't want them to look at. It restraints them from personally harassing you to get information without a warrant. Once the information is out of your hands, you can imagine laws that will protect that information so it is used only according to your expectations, but the 4th amendment isn't the mechanism for that.