News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Docker - the Linux container runtime by peterwwillis on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @01:34PM (#5408804)
Doesn't a standard involve, you know, standards? AFAIK a product name is not a standard.

What if the namespace changes? What if AuFS changes? What if LXC changes? Independently or all together? ABI changes? Version changes? Feature changes? Are all the licenses compatible? Will it ever support platforms other than just certain versions of Linux? Or languages other than Go?

I don't see a standard. I see marketing for a product and a mailing list to collect potential customers. But maybe i'm missing something.

Re:Docker - the Linux container runtime by shykes on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @01:48PM (#5408908)
Hi Peter, this website was only meant to be seen once Docker is actually open-source, which will be the case very soon.

I do think there is a need for a standard way to package and share software at the filesystem and process level - we don't pretend to define that standard, but hopefully we can contribute to it by open-sourcing a real-world implementation.

Re:Docker - the Linux container runtime by peterwwillis on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @02:03PM (#5409002)
I guess I read too far into it when I saw the word "standard" everywhere and got excited - sorry about that. Do you plan on adding to your implementation the ability to differentiate between compatible versions/platforms, so one could use this on several cloud instances that aren't built the same?
Re:Docker - the Linux container runtime by shykes on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @02:18PM (#5409119)
Yes, that is definitely something we would like to add. And we will gladly accept pull requests :)
Re:Docker - the Linux container runtime by derefr on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @01:44PM (#5408877)
I'm just presuming, but:

1. every one of those attributes would be fixed against a given version of the (coming) Docker spec, and a given host would specify what version(s) of the spec they were compatible with.

2. Go is, I think, just the language the glue code is written in; not the language your own things-deployed-using-Docker must be written in.

3. It might support other Linux distros (Fedora, probably), but it won't support other OSes as hosts--because the whole point is to run things that need a POSIX-alike as their "outer runtime" (i.e. not Windows programs, etc.) The way to run these containers on another host will be to run Linux in a VM on that host, and run the containers in the VM--just like the way to play a Super Nintendo game "container" on your computer is to run them in a Super Nintendo VM. [Actually, come to think of it, game ROMs are a great analogy for precompiled SquashFS containers. I would adopt it if I were them :)]

Re:Docker - the Linux container runtime by peterwwillis on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @02:10PM (#5409044)
The trick here is that their xmame (Docker) may not be the same build on all hosts, so it may not play the ROMs all in the same way or support all ROMs. A standard works to improve interoperability between different builds/hosts/etc as well as provide an expected set of operations and their results. If all they provide is just one version of one product and call that standardized, that's like releasing a new version of Internet Explorer and calling it a web standard.
Re:Docker - the Linux container runtime by derefr on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @02:30PM (#5409194)
Well, this is a good first step in the "free market" standardization process, though: get a public implementation out of what you would imagine standard-conformance to look like. Then, let the other guys (e.g. Heroku) get out their competing implementations. Then, find the similarities, resolve the differences, and write it down. Now you've got a standard.
Re:Docker - the Linux container runtime by peterwwillis on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @02:59PM (#5409383)
In practice that does not work. Things get broken, people end up having to support 20 edge cases to use this "universal", "standardized" thing. Depends on the implementation, though.
Re:Docker - the Linux container runtime by derefr on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @04:12PM (#5409906)
"HTML 1.0" was the particular standard I had in mind. I guess I'm too used to coding multiplatform Javascript, but "end[ing] up having to support 20 edge cases to use this 'universal', 'standardized' thing" sounds like success in my books--in that you now have a (painfully) interoperating ecosystem, where before you had none. And it all gradually gets smoothed out as the spec evolves over the years, until you can't really tell the difference from a BDUF spec.
Re:Docker - the Linux container runtime by regularfry on Thursday March 21, 2013 @07:38AM (#5414357)
The best standards come from ratifying practice, not dictat.