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Re:Here come the encryption apps by loeg on Saturday March 09, 2013 @07:04PM (#5350074)
moxie, I'm curious how the "short authentication string" prevents MITM attacks — can you shed some light on this or point me to existing documentation? Thanks!
Re:Here come the encryption apps by moxie on Saturday March 09, 2013 @08:16PM (#5350267)
The SAS section of the ZRTP RFC has all the details: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6189#section-7

But the short answer is that part of the negotiated key material for the call is used to derive two words from the PGP word list, which are displayed to the user.

If the users then have a conversation about those words and they are the same, then chances are that they have the same key material. In the case of a MITM, they would have different key material, and thus different short authentication strings.

Re:Here come the encryption apps by rdtsc on Saturday March 09, 2013 @08:08PM (#5350243)
I am not moxie, but I'll reply. The key thing is that a short authentication string is shown to both parties. Then it is the job of the parties to also verify by talking to each other that they are talking to the right person (authentication part). That is the key part -- using some other channel (not just he algorithms and the protocol to authenticate the counter-party).

Then the boring part kicks in and the way the algorithms works is that if you are convinced that you are talking to the right person, then the way the secret key is generated won't be infer-able to an eavesdropping party.

Now, if I remember correctly NSA has published a paper where they allegedly fooled this system by using voice disguise and a voice actor to basically play a man in the middle attack. Now this is highly subjective and based on the context, so take that with a grain of salt.

Re:Here come the encryption apps by ams6110 on Saturday March 09, 2013 @07:09PM (#5350084)
It's some sort of key fingerprint. You know the key you sent to the other party, and the other party can compute the fingerprint of the key they received from "you." If they don't match, someone changed keys in transit.
Re:Here come the encryption apps by loeg on Saturday March 09, 2013 @07:12PM (#5350092)
Does this assume that the voice channel can't be doctored? But couldn't a MITM attacker do just that — compute the "correct" fingerprint and speak it to the recipient?
Re:Here come the encryption apps by MichaelGG on Saturday March 09, 2013 @08:08PM (#5350241)
Yes, it assumes an attacker cannot imitate the other person's voice without detection. If you introduce enough latency or have a system fast enough to do on-the-fly voice changing you'd be set. It's such a great, simple idea, I felt stupid for not having thought of it.

To be sure, the voice channel establishes before the verbal authentication. I see your fingerprint is "banana", you see "kitchen". We can chat and I can say "alright so banana, right?" and you say "yep, in the kitchen". An attacker would need to remove banana and kitchen from that voice conversation and put their own fingerprint words in.

I think that level of realtime audio modification is pretty out of reach for now, although I suppose if you introduced a lot of latency, you might be able to pull it off. It'd probably be noticeable, and you can keep chatting and confirming the phrase, so an attacker would have to be really on-the-ball.

Plus, this only happens the first time. After that, the client saves the keys, so you know you're good.

Re:Here come the encryption apps by loeg on Saturday March 09, 2013 @08:30PM (#5350311)
Okay, cool. It sounds like this sort of attack is very difficult for now — but I would rather be aware of it than not.

It sounds like RedPhone doesn't actually save the keys yet — it's a work-in-progress. But that makes lots of sense.