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Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by tptacek on Saturday February 16, 2013 @04:51PM (#5233165)
She does get a straight answer. Regulators don't sue; they have a steady-state relationship with the banks where their concerns are addressed with consent decrees. Lawsuits are insanely expensive in the best of cases, but they're worse when you're suing a megabank, because the suit impacts the broader economy.

It is a little disingenuous for Warren to act surprised about this. She knows not only why regulators don't sue, but also how unlikely it is that we're going to start doing that (it'd be economically irrational for us to do so).

Her heart is in the right place. Too Big To Fail is a real problem. But if you've got a bunch of wasp nests in your back yard, you don't fix the problem by jamming sharp sticks into them.

Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by suresk on Saturday February 16, 2013 @10:09PM (#5234043)
> [...] but they're worse when you're suing a megabank, because the suit impacts the broader economy.

I don't disagree with the factual correctness of this statement, but the implication is unsettling. Any kind of legal action from the government - from throwing someone in jail for possession of marijuana to suing banks over financial crimes - has negative economic consequences. If we send someone to jail for drug possession, we spend a lot of money investigating and prosecuting them, we pay to keep them locked up, we happily give up their productivity and any taxes they would have paid, and we reduce their long-term value to society by hanging a public arrest record on them. So, where do we stop using economic consequences as a reason for not enforcing laws?

I'm somewhat highly-compensated and I contribute a lot back to the economy, though consumption and taxes. Should the government prosecute me and someone who only earns minimum wage differently, since prosecuting me and throwing me in jail will have a substantially higher negative impact on the economy? Maybe I get 2 or 3 free misdemeanors per year, your average millionaire gets a free felony, and if you are on Fortune's top 100 list you get 3 free felonies?

I'm seeing more and more justification of not going after big companies and powerful executives due to the economic impact, and I think that is getting awfully close to codifying different legal systems for rich people and poor people. Certainly it already exists to a degree, but at least we sort of pretend that it is distasteful now.

Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by Cushman on Saturday February 16, 2013 @05:19PM (#5233282)
That's a little uncharitable. It's obvious that Senator Warren's real question is: Do the banks have any reason to feel as if they face a threat of real legal action if they break the rules?

If not, that's surely something we can and should change.

Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by tptacek on Saturday February 16, 2013 @07:23PM (#5233685)
I don't mean to be uncharitable. I'm glad Elizabeth Warren is there. She's demagoguing, but so is everyone else, and her side of the argument is underrepresented.

But it's not at all clear --- in fact, it seems unlikely --- that the core problem we face is a refusal by regulators to sue.

It seems more likely that the core problem is that the economic incentives in the finance industry, or at least in commercial banking, favor rapid and aggressive consolidation. Not enough disincentive exists to offset the externalities this creates. Maybe we should tax banks based on their sizes; maybe we should do that in the form of some kind of insurance premium.

But since anything we'd do to address any of the real problems is going to require bipartisan cooperation, first we need to be candid about what the problems are.

Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by chetanahuja on Saturday February 16, 2013 @05:35PM (#5233341)
s/break the rules/break the laws/

Completely different meaning. If ate a bar of chocolate in the library despite posted signs against eating and drinking. I broke a rule. If I threw my chocolate bar at the librarian's face with an intent to injure him, I broke a law (assault and injury etc.)

Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by Cushman on Saturday February 16, 2013 @05:47PM (#5233371)
And if there wasn't anything you could do to land yourself in court, wouldn't you start to wonder if there are any real laws at all?
Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by chetanahuja on Monday February 18, 2013 @02:38PM (#5240159)
Oh there's no doubt that laws were and are being broken by top banks every single day. The problem is that they have enough concentration of power on their side (in most western countries) that it's almost impossible for the feeble democratic institutions to effectively punish them.
Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by fnordfnordfnord on Saturday February 16, 2013 @07:07PM (#5233629)
>..., but they're worse when you're suing a megabank, because the suit impacts the broader economy.

Or so the hypothesis goes. I'd argue that avoiding a hypothesized short-term economic problem in this way simply creates the much larger problem.

Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by milfot on Saturday February 16, 2013 @06:07PM (#5233435)
It is not disingenuous, it is feigned. A subtle but important difference. She points out in the first 30 seconds of that clip why it is important that they SHOULD occasionally sue - leverage.

You can't just count the cost of one suit against one settlement and call it economically rational.

Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by InclinedPlane on Saturday February 16, 2013 @05:59PM (#5233410)
You also don't fix the problem by watching out the window as the wasp nests get bigger and more numerous.
Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by tptacek on Saturday February 16, 2013 @06:55PM (#5233596)
Of course that's true.
Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by Bud on Saturday February 16, 2013 @11:32PM (#5234197)
Lawsuits (or filing charges) may be insanely expensive, yes. But I really doubt they are as expensive as never bringing charges against anyone or suing anyone, and the damage that eventually causes due to pervasive, unchecked corruption of the entire system.
Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by newman314 on Saturday February 16, 2013 @07:20PM (#5233678)
Sue the individuals. No one individual is too big to fail.
Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by saraid216 on Sunday February 17, 2013 @02:42AM (#5234520)
I'm pretty sure that violates the entire point of having corporations whatsoever.
Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by einhverfr on Sunday February 17, 2013 @04:17AM (#5234670)
No it doesn't. The entire point of having corporations is to shield investors, not to shield decision-makers.
Re:Bankers now Too Big to Jail by newman314 on Sunday February 17, 2013 @03:50AM (#5234628)
Just like officers of the company are legally responsible for the financials, they can AND should be help responsible for such actions.