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Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by astrodust on Wednesday February 13, 2013 @11:58PM (#5217827)
I used to like this book. Then I realized it's basically Twilight for teenaged boys and started to think about it more critically.

Ender is an impossible creature and creates an archetype that cannot be lived up to. People make mistakes, it's what makes them learn, advance, succeed, become stronger. Ender is some kind of perverted ideal.

The way this essay describes military strategies makes it seems like those running today's theaters are absolute idiots that simply smash one group of soldiers to another just like the British did in the 1800s. This is not the case. "Attrition theory" is not what's employed in individual battles, pawn-for-pawn style exchanges. The US Army, as an example, takes extremely low numbers of casualties with staggeringly high numbers of casualties inflicted.

Most of these bold claims about Card's novel seem like fluff on closer examination. They're plot drivers for a novel and in that sense they bear a similarity to real-life examples. Nothing more.

Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by hosh on Thursday February 14, 2013 @01:15AM (#5218033)
So Ender's Shadow shows that the teachers running the game behind the scenes were playing a much deeper game, one designed to bring about the insights that Ender developed. That further, it was important that Ender developed them on his own so that he realize, he can never depend on doctrine handed down from the past, and so develop something from a fresh start.

Besides, Ender's Game is simply the setup for Speaker of the Dead, a much more interesting book.

To be fair. I read Ender's Game multiple times when I was younger. I have not yet read it again now that I have a better understanding of Sun Tzu's Art of War and the John Boyd biographies. I have no idea what I'd find if I read it again.

Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by Tichy on Thursday February 14, 2013 @03:44AM (#5218477)
Aren't most heroes in books impossible creatures impossible to be lived up to?

I still think there is a lot more content in Ender's Game than in Twilight. The message of Twilight is basically "be depressed and broody, and a shiny vampire with superpowers will fall eternally in love with you". In Ender's Game at least there are real problems and real solutions, even if perhaps it is unrealistic that a single guy could have come up with them. Then again, the book was written by a single person, so it is not completely unfeasible to have such thoughts and ideas.

Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by mgarfias on Thursday February 14, 2013 @12:16AM (#5217872)
Stormin Norman's initial war plan for Iraq 1 was indeed attrition based. We were to land in Kuwait and beat the Iraqis back via blunt force. Cheney,secdef at the time, realized how bloody this would be, and pulled Boyd in from retirement to rewrite the war plan. The marines succeeded brilliantly with their part. The army did not, and concern for their flanks allowed the Iraqi army to escape.
Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by kevin_rubyhouse on Thursday February 14, 2013 @12:37AM (#5217919)
This is very interesting. What book did you read about this in?
Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by mgarfias on Thursday February 14, 2013 @02:00AM (#5218163)
Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by sliverstorm on Thursday February 14, 2013 @12:30AM (#5217909)
Of course he is a perverted ideal. It's been a while, but didn't they insinuate he was genetically engineered or something along those lines?

Besides, he is not without flaws. If you didn't notice them, maybe you weren't paying enough attention?

Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by SatvikBeri on Thursday February 14, 2013 @05:02PM (#5222717)
That's Bean. Ender and his siblings were simply the children of two very smart people.
Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by Cushman on Thursday February 14, 2013 @12:38AM (#5217925)
Ender is profoundly not a role model. I think you may have missed something crucial there.
Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by jackpirate on Thursday February 14, 2013 @01:33AM (#5218085)
Except that in practice, he actually is a role model for a large number of people in the military.
Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by Cushman on Thursday February 14, 2013 @12:07PM (#5220411)
Well, yeah; "Shut up, do as you're told, and we'll succeed in exterminating those other people" is a lesson the military takes in a somewhat different light from the general public.
Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by notb on Thursday February 14, 2013 @01:02AM (#5218001)
I agree. Ultimately, he does all the things he does because the system is using him. Harry Potter is closer to a perverse ideal than Ender.
Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by astrodust on Thursday February 14, 2013 @06:18PM (#5223257)
The thing about Harry Potter is he makes mistakes, he has setbacks. It's not just win after win after improbable win.
Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by notb on Thursday February 14, 2013 @07:17PM (#5223583)
Spoiler alert: Ender commits xenocide just to prove his worth. Is that a win?
Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by lotsofcows on Thursday February 14, 2013 @05:35AM (#5218835)
"simply smash one group of soldiers to another" Wow, massive simplification of a highly effective discipline based strategy (nicked off the Romans).
Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by darkarmani on Thursday February 14, 2013 @11:52AM (#5220306)
> Ender is an impossible creature and creates an archetype that cannot be lived up to. People make mistakes, it's what makes them learn, advance, succeed, become stronger. Ender is some kind of perverted ideal.

Isn't that the point? It's the same as reading about the life of an amazing Olympic athlete. The book follows a prodigy military strategist -- shouldn't he be an archetype?

Re:No Combat Without Movement: Enders Game as Maneuver Warfa... by coffeedrinker on Thursday February 14, 2013 @12:09AM (#5217852)
Life is difficult. For me, the point is to let yourself grow stronger to meet those challenges rather than giving up.

I like to think that God is actually deliberately making things harder for me on/with purpose. Keeps me fighting.