News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Postel’s Principle is a Bad Idea by mmahemoff on Sunday February 03, 2013 @06:44PM (#5161715)
Browser tolerance for HTML errors is one of the main reasons the web took off so fast.
Re:Postel’s Principle is a Bad Idea by MichaelGG on Sunday February 03, 2013 @06:55PM (#5161751)
Citation needed? Is there any reason to believe that if the browsers had insisted on wellformed documented and provided errors like "error at line X, table tag not closed" that people would not have been able to fixup documents? I don't believe that's would have stopped things.

But that exact behaviour, trying to infer intent, meant that tons of unspecified behaviour had to be added to all browsers to try to mimic which each one did to handle totally invalid cases.

So, even if leniency did make it easier to create a web page, it also contributed greatly to the already difficult task of creating consistent cross-browser rendering.

Look at JavaScript, and the recent semi-colon debacle with Bootstrap and some other tool. Having "implementer defined" leniency just means you'll get multiple interpretation and problems.

Re:Postel’s Principle is a Bad Idea by othermaciej on Sunday February 03, 2013 @09:57PM (#5162205)
We've tried this experiment - it's called XHTML. For a long time, adoption by authors of the strict error handling it offered was stymied by lack of support in MSIE. So it's not a full counter-factual. However, we have learned two things:

(1) Now that MSIE does support true XML parsing of XHTML, almost no one is choosing to use it over HTML.

(2) Of the few experts who conditionally served either text/html or application/xhtml+xml depending on the UA, or serve XML unconditionally now, almost all have bugs in their sites which can get them to produce ill-formed XML which then shows an error page in the browser (for instance, submitting comments with certain sorts of errors). This is evidence that the draconian error handling approach is too challenging even for experts and imposes the costs of small mistakes on users.

Re:Postel’s Principle is a Bad Idea by tedunangst on Sunday February 03, 2013 @11:55PM (#5162515)
I think the bigger lesson to be learned is that after poorly followed ad hoc standards have made a mess of things, it's hard to come in and clean up later.
Re:Postel’s Principle is a Bad Idea by barrkel on Sunday February 03, 2013 @08:08PM (#5161923)
A nontechnical user, given a choice between two environments, one of which nags them pedantically over technical details, and another which displays the gist of entered content but perhaps with sometimes screwy formatting which one would win?

Word processors won out over text processors for the nontechnical user partially for this reason.

Postel's law applied to HTML let nontechnical users get things done with less impedance. It's less important now not because it was the wrong choice, but because users have moved higher up the stack to CMSes that handle formatting etc.

Consistency across browsers back then was only ever of serious concern to professionals in design or browser programming.

Re:Postel’s Principle is a Bad Idea by tedunangst on Sunday February 03, 2013 @11:53PM (#5162503)
Writing correct HTML is not significantly harder than writing crappy HTML. Comparing it to latex vs word isn't a good analogy IMO. And wouldn't nontechnical users be using higher level HTML editors anyway? At least some bad HTML comes from lazy developers who should know better, and could have done better with a stricter tool.
Re:Postel’s Principle is a Bad Idea by emn13 on Monday February 04, 2013 @04:40AM (#5163287)
It's not entirely trivial to write out correct HTML. In addition to properly closing tags, you need to deal with optional end tags (many get this wrong), optional start tags, the odd comment syntax, weird exceptionality wrt escaping esp. in script tags, context-dependant validity such as no block-level elements in inline elements (or nested a tags, or tags whose "type" depends on their attributes).

It's obviously easier to write than to read; but it's definitely easy to make a mistake. There's a lot of illogical cruft that's accumulated in HTML; so even a careful implementer might make a mistake (and might not detect it since most other implementations are so liberal).

Re:Postel’s Principle is a Bad Idea by barrkel on Tuesday February 05, 2013 @03:44AM (#5169777)
I'm was talking about the 90s.
Re:Postel’s Principle is a Bad Idea by Hixie on Sunday February 03, 2013 @10:08PM (#5162231)
But (as the OP says) you can have browser tolerance without leaving it undefined.