>You're looking at things from the perspective of being bound by the licenses and copyright, but as i wrote licenses are a means of getting control and giving more control within the confines of copyright. They are a means, not the goal.

Because free software as a movement depends on the existence of licenses and copyright. Without the ability to legally enforce and defend those licenses it would be completely meaningless Just as any freedom is meaningless without a means to enforce and defend it. And as LLMs don't even allow the means, they can't be useful in reaching the goal.

The goal is for people to have control over their software - direct control, not control as determined by a mediator or service.

>LLMs, even by the limits they have from their training, can be used to give more control to their users than what they have.

We disagree on what "control" is in this context.

I don't believe prompting a service to generate code you can't understand and thus can't use without that service is control over code in any meaningful sense, any more than ordering food at MacDonalds is control over the menu.

>LLMs can still give users more control over their computing than they previously had - even within the confines of current copyright laws, if they so desire.

They can't, because LLMs don't respect those laws. It doesn't matter what license you use, it just gets sucked into the plagiarism machine like anything else.

Also, people had more control before LLMs because they didn't need to use LLMs. Knowledge is control. An empty text editor is infinitely more freeing than burning token on Claude (or whatever) will ever be.

First of all, you don't have to rely on a service. Open weight LLMs exist and they can do a lot of stuff - i use Qwen 3.8 27B myself. It can examine a codebase and do things all offline, all under my control.

Second, again, you're looking at things through the lens of licenses and missing the point that they're not the goal but the means of achieving control - and LLMs allow people to achieve that control in a different way.

Look, it is very simple: people who were unable to do that before (regardless of the reason) with an LLM can do take some piece of software and modify it to their own personal needs, or make some new piece of software or w/e they want. This is giving them more control over their computers than THEY previously had.

I.e:

Before: cannot make their OpenFoo do bar when they do baz by themselves, they have to cede that control over whoever works on OpenFoo.

Now: they can point OpenFoo's source to a (capable) LLM and instruct it (or have it guide them) to making it do bar when they do baz, all by themselves, without having to rely on whoever works on OpenFoo. The LLM can even provide advice on how to keep the program making bar when they do baz after OpenFoo updates.

That is IMO at the center of Free Software: people having the power of being in control of the software.

Sure, right now, there are some issues with the available LLMs and the most capable ones are controlled by others who in turn control you (e.g. Claude being prickly about security issues) but again open weight models exist and while the more capable of them require some very expensive high end hardware, not only capable models on (high end, for now) consumer hardware exists, but betting on the current status quo remaining as-is in the future is akin to thinking that "there is a world market for maybe five computers" (IBM chairman Thomas Watson in 1943) or that "there is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home" (DEC founder Ken Olson in 1977).