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Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by kamaal on Tuesday December 18, 2012 @11:05PM (#4941082)
No, I would say you have to super dumb if you 'chose' to study something that doesn't have much value or doesn't pay well. Its your life and you have to make smart decisions. Its not a game, where you can just shrug it off as a mistake, blame the government and then expect something miraculous to happen.

Looking back, I can tell you about my own experiences here in India. When I opted to study engineering and before that science for my pre-university college, there were a lot of friends of mine who wanted to study history or commerce because it was 'easy'. Really, you have whole life to live on that and you take a wrong decision just because you want it easy for the next 4 years?

Now after 4-5 years when we were all looking for jobs, the very same people who consciously studied history and commerce complained that either had no jobs or jobs that payed very poorly. Most of them either ended either being clerks(where their jobs are constantly threatened by automation) or working at call enters. And again you see the same government blaming. How can the government or people around you help if you make wrong decisions all over the years?

And not surprisingly it turns out most of such people are generally the kind of guys who don't very hard and are always looking for short cuts. One fine day you suddenly wake up and realize its not that easy after all.

Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by ixacto on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @12:07AM (#4941246)
Hah, it is the same here in the USA. The people who studied the easy stuff don't have jobs, and if they do they are low-paid and don't offer much security. The sciences don't even pay that well, although they can if you try hard and schmooze.

100% of the people that I know who studied CS or Engineering (Chemical/Mechanical) _have jobs_ that are well paid, have nice benefits, and are able to live in nice areas of the country and if they want to raise a family. The liberal arts kids, not so much. There is no way of saying it nicely, but for the next 10 years of their lives, they're fucked.

It is IMO hugely unethical for the educational system to shove 'you can be whatever you want to be' down everyone's throats during HS, then expect the Liberal arts to actually be able to find a job, earn enough money to pay off student loans, save $ for a house down payment, pay for health/car/etc insurance, and be able to save for retirement. I am never reproducing (yay childfree), but I shudder to think how my peers with children are managing to pay for for childcare. Oh, and don't forget those who do did not finish college, yet still have $20k of loans collecting interest.

Would you write a check for $150k to a 18 year old kid and let them go party in NYC/LA/Paris for 4 years? Replace Paris with college and that's what college is like, unless you study engineering or maybe medicine.

Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by neurotech1 on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @12:34AM (#4941312)
The old joke is that because of the downturn in the airline industry, the largest employer of aeronautical engineers is McDonalds. These are 4 year college degree graduates, not aviation mechanics, which go to trade school.
Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by jlgreco on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @02:16AM (#4941547)
Just like being in the group "college educated" is not a free ticket to a successful career, being in the group "engineer" is not a free ticket to a successful career.

Is a college educated person in a better position to have a successful career? Of course. Is an engineer in a better position to have a successful career? Of course.

The only difference between an engineer in the wrong discipline and a college graduate with the wrong degree is magnitude.

Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by lbrent on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @03:02PM (#4944474)
If only those disciplines would not be shifting. Being in my mid 40s now I have seen shifts to and from mechanical/electrical engineering, physics, biology, chemistry, computer science, business or law degrees and many more.

Actually when I graduated from high school the safest and easiest path to employment that was recommended to us was to study a humanity and become a teacher (teachers here - Central Europe - are much better paid than in the US) or get a business degree and work for a bank or insurance company. Both of these paths seem ridiculously risky now (or at least last time I checked).

As a conclusion I would argue that there is no such thing as a "free ticket to a successful career". Chances are high that at one point or another there will be a surplus of people in everyones profession and almost everyone will experience unemployment or need to shift careers.

Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by SilasX on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @05:27PM (#4945171)
That would be a rather poor joke, though, since it's probably not true, and the demand for them (as engineers) was still strong when I left the field. (I left because I like programming more, not because I was worried about my job.)
Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by krschultz on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @04:01PM (#4944812)
Tell that to the pile of people with masters and phDs in pharma that have lost their jobs in the last 5-10 years.

10x harder than CS, less job security.

Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by warfangle on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @12:14AM (#4941259)
Education and the surrounding social structure is basically a bioreactor for ideas. I know this is HN, but the blatant disregard for how the humanities effect the enjoyability of your life is vulgar.

Why should we not allow people to devote their life to historical studies? Why should we look down at those whose studies may inspire the simstim visions of our great-grand-children?

Society is creating enough wealth to ensure the pursuit of knowledge for those who wish to undertake it. And pursuit of knowledge is a more driving force for economic growth than any subsidy, any tariff.

"The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed."

Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by mseebach on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @07:17AM (#4942245)
> Education and the surrounding social structure is basically a bioreactor for ideas.

In theory, yes. In reality, I sense is that this was destroyed in many places by the manic push to make everyone go to college. I went to an engineering college, and while I did meet brilliant people there, the "bio-reactor" was severely diluted by a large body of students who basically treated it like high school year 5-8.

Like Kamaal, I've met many students who chose "high school year 5-8" based on what is easy, commerce and humanities, so I wouldn't be surprised if many of these places were even more diluted.

I have no problem with people studying humanities and commerce, I even have little problem paying for it. I do have a problem with a candidate leaving with a humanities degree and them complaining that it's hard to get a job in her or her field. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that there is a limited demand for pure literature degrees. In a way engineers don't have to as much, people with "soft" degrees need to articulate much more clearly how they're going to add value in a job - and that's hard, and it's not my impression it's taught in these programs.

Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by prostoalex on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @12:32AM (#4941305)
Perhaps they could profess that devotion without taking out student loans and drowning in debt? Like, you know, by checking out books on historical studies at their local libraries, and enjoying them every evening?
Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by warfangle on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @11:17AM (#4943235)
Perhaps it would be best if it were unnecessary to go into crippling debt to gain a higher education?
Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by kamaal on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @12:36AM (#4941319)
>>I know this is HN, but the blatant disregard for how the humanities effect the enjoyability of your life is vulgar.

I am not disregarding humanities or history. But it makes more sense to read them when you have no other better work to do. Sorry for putting it bluntly, but you should have better work to do than studying philosophy and arcane trivia about the past.

>>Why should we not allow people to devote their life to historical studies?

Because they don't pay well. And sometimes don't pay at all. Nobody is going to pay you for just knowing 1000 things that happened some hundreds of years back. Such knowledge is not useful to solving any pressing problems that exist currently.

>>Society is creating enough wealth to ensure the pursuit of knowledge for those who wish to undertake it. And pursuit of knowledge is a more driving force for economic growth than any subsidy, any tariff.

Which knowledge, not all forms of knowledge are same. Are they?

Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by zalew on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @01:20AM (#4941427)
And ironically, while you have a degree and express your opinions about education, your wording makes you sound like you are in high school. While I agree with the sentiment that there are other more in demand degrees, calling humanity studies 'arcane trivia about the past' or saying that 'such knowledge is not useful to solving any pressing problems that exist currently' reminds me of all those people for whom news are dumbed down to a 14yr old level because they don't understand any context anyway. To add more to the irony, AFAIK your country is quite overflowed with IT graduates who end up in call centers or other technological slave labor just like their buddies from commerce. So in the end, your enlightening gospel kind of invalidates itself.
Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by kamaal on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @01:39AM (#4941461)
Are you seriously suggesting the people continue to study things which don't pay them well or don't pay them at all?

And if that happens, they follow their passion and when they come out of college and don't find jobs who should they blame? How is the system's mistake that your passion is not in demand and doesn't pay well?

Look I'm not saying you should study philosophy at college. But at the same time you shouldn't look too surprised if with that degree you don't get a job that pays well.

Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by zalew on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @02:21AM (#4941560)
I said none of those things and I won't explain what's already written in front of you (talk about understanding context). Just keep in mind that excess of labor force in a sector leads to decrease in wages and increasing demand in neglected markets. Between 'we demand jobs for philosophers' and 'everybody should just study IT' there are more balanced scenarios. Trends don't change in one year cycles - when you notice that something went wrong it's already too late and it takes long years to fill the gap, and only assuming a too agressive correction doesn't happen.
Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by lbrent on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @03:41PM (#4944689)
"I am not disregarding humanities or history. But it makes more sense to read them when you have no other better work to do."

How is this not disregarding? Just to put things a little bit into perspective. I have an advanced degree in physics and a minor degree in maths. The most part of my professional career have I spend in various IT related positions, running my own businesses for the last 15 years. I am making enough money to lead a comfortable life. But if basically the only even remotely relevant thing (by other measures than monetary, i.e. improving the lives of anybody else) I have ever done was build a website for a global NGO and a mobile app for a local opera house. If anything I have worked for companies whose success might quite likely have made that world a worse place.

Last year I accidentally ran into a girl I knew back in college. She was majoring in sociology. She is my age(40-50), still living in a shared apartment and currently working for close to minimum wage for a local non profit that helps fugitives and illegal immigrants to get legal support and generally help them in their daily struggles.

My point is: Yes I make more money, but I have an immense respect for people like her who sacrifice this for ideals and actually improve peoples live on a regular basis. And in this regard your attitude (like "but you should have better work to do than studying philosophy and arcane trivia about the past") is not only disregarding but insulting and quite frankly shortsighted and ignorant.

Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by eli_gottlieb on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @06:28PM (#4945436)
Because they don't pay well. And sometimes don't pay at all. Nobody is going to pay you for just knowing 1000 things that happened some hundreds of years back. Such knowledge is not useful to solving any pressing problems that exist currently.

You really should read your Marx. We're in an overproduction crisis: the world's most pressing problem is its lack of problems to solve.

Re:Young, Unemployed and Living on the Street by guylhem on Wednesday December 19, 2012 @03:12AM (#4941660)
"Why should we not allow people to devote their life to historical studies?" (or any other thing that won't pay well)

Well, we should allow them, and in fact encourage them if a) it's their passion b) it's on THEIR dime, not mine - ie they are rich or very aware of the consequences.

No need to bankroll economically stupid negation that will result in their employment.