Anyway, all I said was that I find this amusing.
Mac users understand that the Mac OS is worth money -- otherwise they'd be Linux users. So they look at a $400 machine running the Mac OS as a huge bargain, and are happy to go through all sorts of pain in exchange for it.
Of course, if the Hackintosh movement catches on there will be a new class of people who -- being too cheap to buy an actual Mac -- will try the Hackintosh route, encounter problems (installation difficulties, subtle bugs that destroy data, apps that don't work, OS upgrades that cause their machines to break) and gripe about it. Which will subtly tarnish Apple's brand. This is why Apple's lawyers are so vicious about this stuff.
Lets see some evidence for this. There are many more Linux users than Hackintosh users, so (using a similarly flawed naive analysis to your own) it seems that Linux users are more willing to put up with compromises.
Fixed that for you.
I understand the sniping elsewhere, but on Hacker News it's unnecessary, and I and other users would really like to see people stop saying stupid stuff like this, and that means people on all sides. We're here because we love talking about stuff and having debates, and there's no debate here, because everybody sees their computer in different ways. So can we go back to saying useful, intelligent things rather than provoking the people on both sides? (For the record, I'm one of these people: when people get antiMac I flip out, and that's not a good thing, and I'm trying to stop getting so involved.)
Anyway, Mac users (and people that use Linux "to be cool") tend to behave like members of a religious cult. Instead of providing actual reasons for anything, they make up some emotional bullshit to justify their strong feelings for something not worth feeling strongly about.
everybody sees their computer in different ways
Maybe, but it's possible you have settled on something that's acceptable, rather than "the best". Reminding people of this from time to time is not necessarily a bad thing.
I can't answer for "Mac users", because I'm one person (who, incidentally, has seen more than his share of Linux users get upset over similar contests), but here's how it works for me. I take discussion of stuff like this seriously. When somebody says that an OS sucks, I try to legitimately find out why they dislike the OS, because very often it teaches me something about my computer that I didn't know. So I find myself drawn into every fight that goes like this.
Part of it is because I hate the antiMac backlash that pops up just because it happens to have a very firm following. I love debating OS with people. It's a fascinating subject. I love talking with Windows enthusiasts and Ubuntu enthusiasts: I find out new stuff about their respective systems each time. I like talking about people who legitimately have criticisms for the Mac, because oftentimes it makes me go looking for better solutions to problems I've been having, and that makes me enjoy the experience of using my computer. And when somebody insults the Mac without saying anything meaningful, that sets me on edge. It's like somebody who disses Shakespeare or The Wire (two other things I have passionate feelings about). If they give criticism, it becomes a discussion. If they insult it needlessly, then it becomes personal, because this person is dismissing something that to me is a culmination of a long, long process.
But if you say "Macs suck" to a Mac user, you get a long lecture about the experience and how awesome it is to use a computer like it's 1995 and blah blah blah (or something, I usually zone out after the first sentence).
This is exactly the problem: when I use a Mac it feels awesome. Perhaps you feel the same about Linux, but I never hear Linux users talk like this. When I open my Mac, I feel a sheer childlike joy at the computer I'm using. Every time I find out something new, it's this incredible marvel for me. It's this wonder that somebody else anticipated what I would try to do and made it work that way. As a result, I'm not just a fan of my Mac, I'm an enthusiast. That's the right word for it. I actively talk about my Mac to people. I find it incredibly exciting. When I meet other people as enthusiastic as me, I talk to them about it and it's the thrill of meeting somebody with a similar taste as me. I'd call it the thrill of discussing art. That's how I see my Mac, both the hardware and the OS and pretty much every aspect of Apple. I view the entire thing as a masterful work of art.
Other people don't see computers like this. I'm aware of that. When I open an OS, the first thing I do is drag the cursor on the desktop to make a selection of material, and look at what the OS does when I drag over the initial point. On Windows the line disappears; on Ubuntu the line becomes 1px; on a Mac, with a 3px width the entire selector box moves over 2px as you drag, so that the line on the one side replaces the line on the other side as the boundary. That's the level of introspection I focus on my computer - and I talk about it, too! I was thrilled when I saw that. To me, there's a visual poetry to that one simple action, to the mindset that decided on that course of action. That's a feature, to me. That's something that I find wanting in other operating systems.
Do you at least comprehend that mindset? I understand why you Linux users like Linux. Some mindsets like picking things apart and tinkering with them. I, on the other hand, look for products of human creation. I look for a powerful controlling mind determining everything. I call that the "artist" mindset because every artist I meet has it. It's the feeling you get when you understand that everything you do ought to be plastered with your personality, ought to work according to your mind, and when you start to appreciate the results of other people's minds. When I use my Mac, I don't see it as a tool. I don't open it with the mindset that this is built just to let me do things. I look at it as an experience to be had. Every small little detail is a part of that experience.
It's why Mac users photograph and document the process of their opening their cases for the first time. Why they gossip about the welcoming video. Why they watch the keynotes. It's why I watched the keynotes when I wasn't a Mac user yet. It's the thrill of exhibition. My Mac is a gallery, not just of my own work but of the incredible work that went into making this computer what it is.
Instead of providing actual reasons for anything, they make up some emotional bullshit to justify their strong feelings for something not worth feeling strongly about.
It's because they feel that. It's not bullshit. I could take your need to tinker, to customize your computer, and call that bullshit, and I would be just as wrong. "What sort of dumb motherfucker wants to type shit into a terminal? Who the fuck cares about programming languages if you can do anything with pretty much one if you know the basic commands? What sort of stupid turd would want to use an application library or think about window management?" But I don't say that, because I understand that different people see different things in their computers. The reason I get so pissed off at people who blindly attack the Mac - as you do every time you post anything OS-related, from what I've read - is that you don't seem to have that similar comprehension.
When I talk about stuff I like, I don't talk about technical details. You might call it cultlike, or you might call it simple emotional response. (Last time I checked, emotion was natural.) Say I'm explaining to you why I like Arrested Development. I could say, "There's a running arc of a joke between episodes 1.01 and 1.03, there are several cleverly twisted stereotypical characters, and the concept of an overall narrator allows for certain clever jokes to be made." Or I could say, "You have to see it. It's seriously the funniest show I've ever seen. I can't even explain to you how wonderful it is." And if you were to say, without having seen much of Arrested Development, something along the lines of "Arrested Development sucks, 2 and a half men is better," my initial reaction WOULDN'T be the same as if the position was reversed, because with Arrested Development I've devoted a considerable amount of time to something that I consider is worth an extended intellectual effort on my part. Damn right I'm going to get pissed off, because this represents a valueset that I have, and if you insult this then you're insulting my standards. (Arguing that there are no standards at all, or that standards aren't worth passion, is disgusting.)
Maybe, but it's possible you have settled on something that's acceptable, rather than "the best".
No. Here's the problem with that. I've used everything. I've run varieties of Linux. I've used Windows XP and Windows Vista. I've tried everything I could get my hands on. After that, after years of painstaking research, I settled on the Mac as the clear victor in every way that matters for me. I know my Mac in-and-out. I know all the keyboard shortcuts, the various drag-n-drop effects, the menubars and how they're laid out. In my mind, the design of the Mac is as close to perfection as any computer's had, and it continues to improve. I have nitpicks, absolutely, and I'm vocal about how irritating those small little things are, but that's like nitpicking the first line of Lindsay Bluth on the pilot episode of Arrested Development. Yeah, I'll say I "really dislike" that line, but it only stands out because the rest of the series is so close to perfection. So I might gripe because right now, my Command-Control-D is broken and I don't know what's breaking it, but the fact remains that C-C-D is a command that no other operating system has, and that it does something incredibly elegantly, and that my not having that doesn't make my Mac less than the very best, because it absolutely is.
If you want to tell me my Mac isn't perfect, ready your list of critiques. I've got several virtual Linux boxes running, and if need be I'll open them up and point out specific things with screenshots to explain what I mean, because this is what I do. I compare operating systems and software with a ridiculously anal eye. I do that to everybody. I fight with people over things that are very, very good, because I think they could be better. And if you want to join in on that debate, then you have to be prepared to do the same, otherwise Mac users will get pissed off. A lot of us spend this incredible effort constantly because it's our passion. People who dismiss the stuff that we love without any sort of thought really, really piss us off. The reason is this: you see your computer as a tool, some efficiency system. But us? The hardcore Mac users? We see it as an essential part of living.
I can understand all that you have said
But still, if we look at macs as pieces of art, and get a 40 years old soviet radio, make it in to a pc box, stuff it with hardware, install OSX on it, that would still kick ass. Is that equal to taking the Mona Lisa, writing a graffiti tag on it, and hanging it upside down in your living room, using duck tape? Probably, but its still awesome! You see, chaos is sometimes also an art, not as good art as perfection, but still its pretty cool.
ps. http://www.kaldata.com/articles.php?action=show&showarti... It runs windows, but it's still super awesome.(Bulgarian language)
you, sir, are certainly not the average Linux fanboy.
Oh, and 2009 is the year of Linux on Desktop. Again.