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Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by EwanToo on Friday December 07, 2012 @08:51AM (#4886845)
I'm not going to go line by line, but you could start with this:

Proprietary software is associated with malicious treatment of the user

I don't believe 99% of people out there associate proprietary software with malicious treatment.

Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by josephlord on Friday December 07, 2012 @09:11AM (#4886924)
He didn't assert anything about peoples associations. He asserted that that there is an association between proprietary software and malicious treatment of the user. Now knowing a little about what RMS regards as malicious that is undoubtedly true in terms of the lack of freedoms.

Even on a narrower definition of malicious if it includes user tracking/monitoring then large amounts of proprietary software can be regarded as malicious. I would narrow my definition of malicious a little more personally but there are large amounts of fairly malicious software out there, very little of it Free software.

You might need to pick another line to take apart.

Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by vacri on Friday December 07, 2012 @05:52PM (#4889669)
'tracking people' is not inherently malicious. Countless parents expect teachers to track their kids.

"Where is my child?" => "I'm sorry ma'am, we had a day trip, but in the interests of your child's freedoms, I was forbidden from tracking her."

Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by josephlord on Friday December 07, 2012 @07:27PM (#4890005)
And I said that I would narrow my definition of malicious a little more so I basically agree although I should have mentioned informed consent and whether it is opt in or out.
Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by splawn on Friday December 07, 2012 @09:18AM (#4886953)
Not disagreeing with your stated belief, but I believe most people in the linux community do associate proprietary software with maliciousness.
Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by Roybatty on Friday December 07, 2012 @10:15AM (#4887217)
I believe you're wrong. The vast majority of "linux users" don't buy into RMS's particular ideology. RMS proactively describes the differences between the OpenSource and "Free Software" philosophies.
Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by shardling on Friday December 07, 2012 @11:16AM (#4887549)
You're conflating two things, I think.

Most Linux users might not buy into a boycott of Ubuntu -- in that sense they reject RMS's ideology.

But I think few would argue that proprietary software does tend towards bullshit -- the very DRM and the like that RMS is calling malicious. They might not go around calling it malicious, but they wouldn't consider RMS's attitude there extreme, just the actions he advocates.

Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by Roybatty on Friday December 07, 2012 @12:26PM (#4887993)
Still disagree. I think your definition of "linux users" tends to be more desktop-oriented, where there is more of a philosophical bent towards an RMS ideology. My definition of "linux users" would include developers and sysadmins that are using it as a server, and use it for more practical reasons.

And malicious has strong connotations..e.g malware, spyware, which most "linux users" wouldn't necessarily apply to developers of legit proprietary software.

Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by hdra on Friday December 07, 2012 @09:14AM (#4886937)
This. Although I agree with his view for free software, the way he convey his messages smells too much of fanaticism for me to swallow.
Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by king_jester on Friday December 07, 2012 @10:07AM (#4887176)
So you dismiss RMS's arguments just because he doesn't talk and write the way you think he should? Talk about derailment, by this logic you don't have to agree with anyone or anything just as long as you feel they aren't nice or polite or well spoken enough.
Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by Karunamon on Friday December 07, 2012 @10:34AM (#4887307)
just because he doesn't talk and write the way you think he should

If he can't communicate his ideas in a calm and balanced way, perhaps those ideas don't have as much value as he thinks they do. Sorry, but method of delivery counts for a lot.

Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by king_jester on Friday December 07, 2012 @01:48PM (#4888504)
Jeez you are so emotional, you should just calm down. If you can't say anything nicely, you shouldn't say anything at all. Who believes an angry ranter like this anyway.
Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by mixmastamyk on Friday December 07, 2012 @04:35PM (#4889367)
> If you ever recommend or redistribute GNU/Linux, please remove Ubuntu from the distros you recommend or redistribute.

Whether or not I agree with it I found it quite calm and balanced (just like the phrase quoted above). Note there are no insults or exclamation points.

Perhaps his writing isn't the issue here, but your perception.

Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by Karunamon on Friday December 07, 2012 @10:13PM (#4890465)
Hyperbole delivered calmly is still hyperbole.
Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by drivebyacct2 on Friday December 07, 2012 @10:47AM (#4887383)
Not really.
Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by hdra on Friday December 07, 2012 @09:14PM (#4890326)
No, what I agree is his overall vision on free software. I don't care how he talk and write, but I can't agree with the way he speaks of his opinion (and maybe many others') as if it were a hard fact. Its not a matter of being polite or not, its more about the fact that basing an argument on opinion is not really credible.
Re:Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do? by Roybatty on Friday December 07, 2012 @10:24AM (#4887259)
RMS's hyperbole undermines his arguments for many people.