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Re:Declining America by imtringued on Thursday May 21, 2026 @04:50AM (#48219664)
The American left is cannibilizing itself. It's a very real problem.

Right-wing incompetence is winning, because to the voters something on the left is even worse than incompetence.

It may be counterintuitive, but there is a lot of anti white male messaging on the extreme left that essentially promotes and encourages male conservatism through exclusion of positive views of men. A lot of men aren't really right-wing, rather, they're in left-wing exile.

Leftist beliefs include the following:

* Men do not need external validation, they should rely exclusively on internal validation

* Supporting men undermines women's support

* Men must be independent and must get themselves out of their own mess

* Men must win or they are losers

* Male winners deserve everything they can get their hands on, while losers deserve nothing

* Male winners are only bad because they are male

* Male losers are twice as bad, because they are male and losers

* If the male loser steps out of line, punch down as hard as you can

These things aren't necessarily said out loud, but they're strongly implied if you read the room.

These deeply conservative undertones simultaneously drive people away from leftwing extremism, but the regular leftwingers often don't even notice the undertones and downplay the problem and push you further out, which means being in "center of left" exile becomes deeply unappealing.

Meanwhile being in the "right of center" exile means you can get away with as little conservatism as you like. Basically the left is giving men extremely tough lessons in conservatism and is instead looking for an external cause on the other side that doesn't really exist.

Re:Declining America by notarobot123 on Thursday May 21, 2026 @05:17AM (#48219889)
We're off-topic but it's genuinely interesting that you see these as "leftist" beliefs about men. Isn't this mostly the set of views on masculinity in the "manosphere" which is very much aligned with "rightist" beliefs?

I agree there is an apparent tone of misandry in some of the rhetoric of the left but the actual beliefs you cite are (with the exception of a few) things men on the right say about other men.

Re:Declining America by ahartmetz on Thursday May 21, 2026 @05:23AM (#48219927)
This is "identity politics leftism", which is an incredibly useful (to political donors) distraction from economic leftism. Economic leftism is not what the donors want, hence the center party with added idpol bullshit distraction and the right wing party.
Re:Declining America by watwut on Thursday May 21, 2026 @06:08AM (#48220238)
Almost all of your points are right wing manosphere points. Most, but not all are moderate conservative opinions - you literally find those points in books written by mainstream non extremist conservatives. You are literally blaming the left for opinions and positions conservatives actively propagate and push for. Frankly, issue here is that you have no idea about what left says or do, but you do project everything you dislike on the left.

You know who run on identity politics? It was the republicans.

> A lot of men aren't really right-wing, rather, they're in left-wing exile.

A lot of men are left. And a lot of men are explicitly openly right wing.

Somehow, there is no talking point about men exiting conservativism because of active push for the above look at masculinity. The opposition toward the above view is supposed to manifest exclusively by moving toward people who super actively promote it.

Re:Declining America by ahartmetz on Thursday May 21, 2026 @06:56AM (#48220595)
New/idpol Left: Men need to perform and they are bad people

Right: Men need to perform and they are good people

Gee, why are men voting right? Can you figure it out?

I mean this as an encouragement to fix leftism, not to vote for the other guys.

Re:Declining America by hgoel on Thursday May 21, 2026 @08:44AM (#48221761)
Where does this idea that the right is saying that men are good come from? They hate most men for not being white, and they consider white men that don't follow their chauvanistic methods as being weak cuckolds.
Re:Declining America by ahartmetz on Thursday May 21, 2026 @09:22AM (#48222206)
They hate some men, but not just for being men. You are just muddying the waters.
Re:Declining America by tommit on Thursday May 21, 2026 @08:29AM (#48221576)
Yeah, I don't agree with a single point. I know we're all in our bubbles, but none of what OP listed seems left-wing to me. I know I've never thought these things to be true.

If anything, the left-wing promotes men to be vulnerable and seek help if they need it. At least where I'm from that's the case. I'm stumped how different our views are on this.