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Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by jampekka on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @03:27PM (#48212800)
This counts only incorrect answers though. A model can get 0% hallucination rate just by refusing to answer all questions.
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by ffsm8 on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @04:21PM (#48213563)
Isn't that precisely the reason why we introduced the term hallucination? Because llms have historically always made up bullshit of they cannot answer directly... If they now nailed this to maybe the model not respond instead of responding incorrectly, then a lot of previously unusable usecases would become feasible.

So I feel like that's exactly the right metric and the way to track it wrt hallucinations.

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by doublescoop on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @06:41PM (#48215302)
I had a buddy in high school that was notorious for doing the same thing. (He's now a senior director at a Big 4 consultancy. :) )
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by rrgok on Thursday May 21, 2026 @02:09AM (#48218560)
Do you mind expanding a little more?
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by alfiedotwtf on Friday May 22, 2026 @05:21AM (#48233649)
They had a buddy who used to lie a lot when they were younger… now they get paid for it
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by akoboldfrying on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @11:08PM (#48217368)
The point is that it's not a useful metric on its own. For example, redirecting from /dev/null also achieves a zero hallucination rate.

We want the hallucination rate to decrease while the overall answer rate of queries remains sufficiently high. For more specifics, look into ROC and AUC.

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by speed_spread on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @04:31PM (#48213686)
Yes. A model that can answer "I don't know" would be much more trustable than the current used car salesman we have now.
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by jorvi on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @06:10PM (#48214920)
Its very annoying this has been in the capability of models since the very beginning. It could check how probable its token values are and if those fall below a certain threshold either say "I don't know", or output the most probable (well, more like least improbable) tokens but give a very clear, very strong warning that it is a shot in the dark and likely to contain hallucinations.

But no, Google and OpenAI would rather always have an answer ready and tell you to mix glue into your pizza toppings :)

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by nomel on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @08:18PM (#48216165)
Yeah, I never understood why the top n statistics weren't included in the chat interfaces, to color the text!
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by tokenscoper on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @08:24PM (#48216203)
I don't have much to add other than this observation that we seem to have moved away from eating one small rock per day for nutritional value, and adding gasoline in spaghetti.

The glue on pizza reference brought back memories :)

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by miki123211 on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @09:03PM (#48216479)
It can't, because top n isn't always reliable.

Hallucination detection is an open problem. If it were that simple, people would indeed "just" do it.

Basically the problem is that LLMs aren't trained on things they don't know; an alternative way of saying this is that they're not trained on things they're not trained on, which is obviously true.

When you RL a model and it answers incorrectly, you don't teach it to answer "I don't know", you teach it to answer correctly instead. This makes it very hard for it to realize when it doesn't know things.

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by chengyongru on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @10:59PM (#48217305)
Models tend to default to their training data even when they lack sufficient context, they've never been trained to recognize their own uncertainty, so they hallucinate confidently instead.
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by SR2Z on Friday May 22, 2026 @10:29AM (#48236376)
The probability of tokens is unfortunately a poor proxy for confidence because it is entirely possible for "mixing glue" to appear in a sentence about making pizza depending on context. It might even be likely if the user has asked the model to lie.
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by jampekka on Thursday May 21, 2026 @06:27AM (#48220369)
Models can answer "I don't know". Hallucination benchmarks, including this, give the models the option to "not attempt". It's just that the metric linked doesn't take into account the rate of correct answers at all. It has its uses in analyzing incorrect vs not attempted answers, but gives a very partial picture.
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by jug on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @06:36PM (#48215242)
I think that's what the Omniscience Index is for:

https://artificialanalysis.ai/evaluations/omniscience#aa-omn...

It rewards correct answers and penalizes hallucinations, and finally no reward for refusing to answer.

It's interesting just how poorly some popular Chinese models fare in this regard, like GLM 5.1 or DeepSeek 4 Pro.

Gemini 3.x has truly remarkable knowledge given how it leads in this benchmark despite being (quite a bit) more prone to hallucinate than Claude Opus.

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by aicantdeny on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @09:12PM (#48216548)
> by refusing to answer all questions.

Cool, precisely the thing other AI is too stupid to do when they don't have the necessary knowledge.

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by Balinares on Thursday May 21, 2026 @02:01AM (#48218490)
Yes, that's in fact precisely the desired behavior when a model doesn't know the answer.