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Re:Why the Catholic church can't ignore science by jimbokun on Friday February 06, 2009 @10:28AM (#469812)
Let me try to draw an analogy.

There are people who sincerely believe "meat is murder." In other words, that killing an animal capable of experiencing terror and pain is wrong in the same way that killing a human being is wrong (though perhaps different in degree, or not). There are other people who, while willing to eat meat, find the conditions that animals live in before they are killed deplorable and would prefer to eat the flesh of an animal that at least gets to experience a more dignified existence before its death.

Now, because the first group advocates a more restrictive standard and takes issue with the second groups willingness to eat meat, is the first group responsible for undue suffering of animals because they fail to acknowledge the reality that people will continue to eat meat?

Yes, this analogy is very inexact in comparison to the positions of monogamy vs. condom use in preventing AIDS. But the general principle is that someone advocating a higher standard is not responsible for others failing to live up to a lesser standard. So, if the Catholic Church advocates monogamy, that does not make them responsible for people not at least using condoms failing that. The only argument left is that the Catholic Church should make gradations in their arguments (condoms bad compared to monogamy, but not as bad as non-monogamous unprotected sex).

(Not a direct response to the article, but to other comments spread throughout this thread. Instead of picking just one to attach this comment to, I'm putting it at the top level.)

Re:Why the Catholic church can't ignore science by cchooper on Friday February 06, 2009 @12:28PM (#470002)
If the Church simply advocated monogamy, then the analogy would hold. But it advocates monogamy and prohibits condom use. It even prohibits condom use between two married people, even if one of them has HIV. The closest equivalent in your analogy would be if the "meat is murder" people said "You shouldn't eat meat. But if you do, make sure the animal suffers first."
Re:Why the Catholic church can't ignore science by astine on Friday February 06, 2009 @01:19PM (#470081)
I'm always puzzled by this argument. The Catholic Church doesn't teach that it is wrong to for unmarried people to use a condom while having sex, it teaches that t is wrong for unmarried people to have sex. The condom rule only applies to married people, there is no rule as to whether people who are already disregarding its teachings should be allowed to use condoms.
Re:Why the Catholic church can't ignore science by cchooper on Friday February 06, 2009 @01:26PM (#470095)
Do you have a cite for that? I couldn't find anything reliable clarifying the issue.
Re:Why the Catholic church can't ignore science by astine on Friday February 06, 2009 @01:47PM (#470137)
Just my old 'Sunday school' classes.

It's just generally not debated for same reason we don't debate whether Hitler should have killed the Jews 'humanely.'

Re:Why the Catholic church can't ignore science by cchooper on Friday February 06, 2009 @01:58PM (#470152)
It makes a difference though. If people interpret all condom use as being a sin, then there is a chance they will not use them in non-marital sex, so the policy (or possibly just the lack of clarity in the policy) may still lead to increased HIV infections.
Re:Why the Catholic church can't ignore science by jimbokun on Friday February 06, 2009 @12:57PM (#470039)
I agree that in the case of monogamous couples using condoms, the analogy breaks down. The analogy holds, though, for non-monogamous sex, I think.
Re:Why the Catholic church can't ignore science by cchooper on Friday February 06, 2009 @01:08PM (#470061)
It depends on whether the prohibition on condoms does indeed increase the spread of HIV in non-monogamous sex. If it does, then the combined monogamy+no comdoms policy causes more HIV infections than a simple monogamy policy. Therefore the no condoms policy is a cause of spreading HIV. This would be equivalent to the suffering caused by vegetarians demanding that animals farmed for food should be made to suffer. They can be praised for their vegetarianism, but should still be held accountable for the suffering they cause.