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Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by jwr on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:36AM (#4659494)
This article is a load of hogwash. "The heart of the pro-Western Polish leadership"? This is silly on so many levels.

I hope this kind of conspiracy theory raving will not make it onto the HN frontpage too often.

As to the crash, it was a CFIT (controlled flight into terrain). There are cockpit recordings right until the moment the plane hit the tree and then the ground. No explosions.

Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by davidw on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:40AM (#4659514)
> I hope this kind of conspiracy theory raving will not make it onto the HN frontpage too often.

Yep, it's very off topic. Conspiracy theory debates are about the last thing you want on a site like this.

Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by seele on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @09:00AM (#4659605)
Yes, definitely looks like a conspiracy theory (sarcasm): http://goo.gl/YREux (by www.simulate-events.com)
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by klearvue on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:32AM (#4659471)
Audio recording of their final minutes is available on YouTube ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPjzMwAFrmc ) and is in line with the official version (for instance, pilots start swearing and screaming a couple of seconds before the end, right after the controller says something about height and a second approach)
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by rubyrescue on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:16AM (#4659407)
Sabotage seems incredibly unlikely as the pilot made repeated passes in heavy fog - attempting to land.
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by seele on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:31AM (#4659465)
They made only one attempt and were on about 30 meters when the series of failures (engines, electrical power, deck computer, steering, etc.) were recorded by black box devices. The airplane broke into thousands of pieces over the swamp near the Smolensk airport.
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by lrem on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:26AM (#4659438)
Wasn't this rumor debunked quite early in the investigation?
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by osipov on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:22AM (#4659422)
How does one go from speculations about explosions on the aircraft to claims of assassination? How about applying an Occam's razor every once in a while?
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by lrem on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:30AM (#4659463)
Occam's razor? What about any common sense? Note that within minutes from the catastrophe there was already the government camp claiming that this was clearly an accident with no fault on either side and the president camp speculating that this was an assassination. The fact that investigation after that was kind of a bad joke didn't help to silence the second camp.
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by p_l on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:33AM (#4659477)
Because "accident" is how you call such disasters? Also, people in the industry knew the less-than-sterling reputation of governmental transport service.

EDIT: I should clarify that "accident" is a specific class of event in aircraft accident investigation, together with "incident". It's literally "aviation terminology" stuff.

Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by freehunter on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:46AM (#4659539)
A plane crash caused by pilot error is the definition of an accident. Not intentional, unexpected, and uncontrolled. The scale or tragedy of the accident doesn't remove the fact that it's an accident.

accident:

[1] An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.

[2] A crash involving road or other vehicles, typically one that causes serious damage or injury.

Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by tomjen3 on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @09:01AM (#4659609)
Airplanes don't blow up randomly.

A proof of an explosion (which this is not) would be proof of an assasination.

Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by yread on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:45AM (#4659536)
And descending below minimum permitted and decision altitudes was also caused by explosives? Flagged
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by osipov on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:29AM (#4659453)
Aircraft pilots, even highly trained ones, overreact in non standard situations. The simulation argues that the plane could not have been significantly damaged by the tree. The simulation doesn't say anything about pilot's reaction to the collision event. An attempt by the pilot to compensate for impact is more likely to have caused damaged than the impact itself.
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by p_l on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:31AM (#4659469)
The simulation also didn't agree with facts, without proposing anything regarding why it the plane might end up where it was found.

Pity the facts, right?

Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by seele on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @10:17AM (#4659913)
And which specific facts the simulation didn't agree with?
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by seele on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:34AM (#4659483)
The overreaction of pilots couldn't make 100 tons of steel to break into pieces 30 meters over the ground.
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by p_l on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:44AM (#4659534)
Except it's not 100 tons of steel. It's a very delicate structure of tons of parts, and the part that got damaged wasn't the most resilient (nor did it account for 100 tons of steel). Breaking into pieces happened when the whole plane hit the ground in the worst possible (for airliner) way - upside down. At over 180 km/h.
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by seele on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:02AM (#4659350)
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by seele on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:09AM (#4659383)
The official explanation of catastrophe was hitting the birch during landing attempt... while the airplane was at about 30 meters of altitude (yes, it was a birch not sequoia).
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by p_l on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:30AM (#4659458)
At that speed, it could easily cut through the rather delicate construct that is an airliner's wing, especially close to tip as it did.
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by TWAndrews on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @09:29AM (#4659743)
Not a lot of 30m birch trees around.
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by seele on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:26AM (#4659439)
There was only one landing attempt.
Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by rorrr on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:27AM (#4659443)
There would be traces of explosives.

"But the tree impact that supposedly precipitated the crash wouldn't have caused enough wing damage to down the plane, said Binienda ... It's absolutely impossible that the wing sheared and then it crashed the way [government investigators] described" - that's all they have, an opinion of a conspiracy nut. I don't buy this for a second, and here's why:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19550616-1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freckleton_Air_Disaster

EDIT:

Oh, and the explosion would be heard by both people on the ground (some random guy was right next to the crash scene, he even put a video on youtube), and on the black box recording (transcript available).

Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by seele on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:49AM (#4659555)
Poland has still no access to the airplane remains: http://www.wbj.pl/article-59216-russia-to-return-smolensk-cr...

The wreck was left on open air for several months: http://en.rian.ru/world/20110112/162110789.html

..than washed by Russians: http://freepl.info/2380-tu-154-wreckage-washed-itself

Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by rorrr on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @09:09AM (#4659642)
I'm not saying that it wasn't a conspiracy and assassination.

I'm saying there's no good evidence of it. So far there are natural explanations of what happened, plus the douchebaggery of the Russian politicians.

Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by seele on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @09:51AM (#4659826)
The problem is that official explanations hidden facts (http://www.doomedsoldiers.com/MAK-crash-report-analysis.html) and forged the evidence (source: http://freepl.info/2512-millers-comission-has-forged-its-own...). The official report was based on... voting of commission members on the conclusions (what a "scientific" approach).

Alternative research done by the independent experts from US and Australia (like http://goo.gl/YREux by www.simulate-events.com) is being ignored and / or silenced.

Re:Boeing engineer: more evidence on the assassination of Po... by osipov on Tuesday October 16, 2012 @08:31AM (#4659467)
Agreed. Most the crashes are consequences of pilot reaction to an unusual event. In short, pilot error. Occam's razor people. Learn it, use it.