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Re:There Were BGP Anomalies During the Venezuela Blackout by sroussey on Monday January 05, 2026 @05:43PM (#46506158)
Russia promised not to invade if Ukraine gave up the nukes.
Re:There Were BGP Anomalies During the Venezuela Blackout by SpecialistK on Monday January 05, 2026 @06:09PM (#46506477)
No no no, some random American diplomat told a random Soviet diplomat during the East Germany negotiations that NATO wouldn't extend east at all.

No, it wasn't put on paper anywhere.

No, it wasn't mentioned (much) when the countries of eastern Europe all chomped at the bit to join NATO in the 90s.

No, it completely makes the Budapest Memorandum bunk.

No, the people of Ukraine absolutely do not have the agency to want to pivot towards the EU and become wealthy and stable like the former Warsaw Pact countries did. It must have been the CIA, so Budapest is bunk again!

(and other lies the war apologists tell themselves)

Re:There Were BGP Anomalies During the Venezuela Blackout by monocasa on Monday January 05, 2026 @06:04PM (#46506396)
To be the devil's advocate, I don't think Russia foresaw a situation that had Ukraine looking to join NATO right after NATO had been used offensively for the first time ever to put its thumb on the scale of a civil war that didn't involve NATO countries.
Re:There Were BGP Anomalies During the Venezuela Blackout by Zagitta on Monday January 05, 2026 @06:15PM (#46506556)
s/devil/putin/
Re:There Were BGP Anomalies During the Venezuela Blackout by monocasa on Monday January 05, 2026 @06:39PM (#46506772)
Sure, but I think these discussions are more enlightening when we model superpowers as rational actors within their ideological system rather than just whatever propaganda is locally convenient.
Re:There Were BGP Anomalies During the Venezuela Blackout by Ray20 on Tuesday January 06, 2026 @07:44AM (#46511544)
> when we model superpowers as rational actors within their ideological system

But they are not. We can thus look at the people who make decisions, but not at the countries themselves. So, it’s most likely not about joining NATO, but about European integration and economic growth.

Re:There Were BGP Anomalies During the Venezuela Blackout by monocasa on Tuesday January 06, 2026 @10:15AM (#46513315)
They absolutely are.
Re:There Were BGP Anomalies During the Venezuela Blackout by marcosdumay on Monday January 05, 2026 @06:28PM (#46506666)
Not much of a change, TBF.
Re:There Were BGP Anomalies During the Venezuela Blackout by pbhjpbhj on Monday January 05, 2026 @09:22PM (#46507979)
If Putin didn't want NATO getting involved if he started a war there's one special trick he could have played! He could have not started a war ...

The only reason Ukraine joining NATO is a problem is if Putin/Russia (or someone else) wants to attack them.

I know there's a real risk of peaceful trade, mutual alliance, humanity, and democracy from breaking out in such circumstances but somehow I think the risk might be worth it for the billions of us who aren't completely fucked up megalomaniacs.

Re:There Were BGP Anomalies During the Venezuela Blackout by monocasa on Monday January 05, 2026 @10:21PM (#46508384)
> The only reason Ukraine joining NATO is a problem is if Putin/Russia (or someone else) wants to attack them.

I mean, that's objectively not true since Libya, who attacked no one, but had a NATO bombing campaign to assist their civil war.

NATO is no longer a purely defensive pact.

Re:There Were BGP Anomalies During the Venezuela Blackout by pbhjpbhj on Thursday January 08, 2026 @05:41PM (#46547544)
Who joined NATO that you're blaming the Libya military interventions on?

If your inference is true then Ukraine's membership would be entirely orthogonal to any intervention NATO took to prevent Putin from committing genocide against his own people.

If NATO would come to Ukraine's aid anyway, then again their membership doesn't matter.

All NATO membership adds is a promise of defence.