It's really a little from column A, a little from column B. I'm a huge Android guy right now, and that Samsung lawsuit annoyed me to no end, but I still watched that video straight through and even sat in a bit of silence at the end. Even I can recognize what Steve and Apple have done, and what America and the world has lost in his dying early.

I don't think it is possible to die early. To die young, perhaps.

If other HNers are like me, this might explain it: I'm not a big fan of Apple. And lately I think they've become the "Big Brother" they were fighting in the 1984 commercial. However, I'm a huge Steve Jobs fan. He's right up there with Henry Ford and Fred Harvey on my list.

Just watch this little clip and you can see why I like one and not the other: http://www.wimp.com/stevemoment/

I think that Henry Ford is a really good comparison. I admire Henry Ford. He was a true innovator. He was everything an entrepreneur should strive to be.

Yet he was also incredibly flawed. His shortcomings are well documented. I still admire, and attempt to emulate, Henry Ford the entrepreneur even if I don't love the man as a whole.

In the same way I admire Apple (and their embodiment in Steve Jovs) for what they've done, and in many ways emulate their approach and passion for making delightful products. Yet I'm wary, and extremely critical, of much of what they're doing.

I can definitely be both. I want to promote the Apple that makes amazing products, while quashing the Apple that wants to exert utter control over everything.

> I want to promote the Apple that makes amazing products, while quashing the Apple that wants to exert utter control over everything.

Which is kind of like wanting to promote water without promoting getting wet.

not necessarily. e.g Nokia's Meego platform was open, yet it was extremely well designed

As a 21 year old, it took me a second to realize that was Steve Jobs. He looks so young.

Is that a trailer for The Matrix?

The problem is with your thinking of individuals as "a crowd" and expecting some sort of cohesiveness, as if the crowd and not the individual is the basic unit of intention and action.

I think, I exemplify what you find fickle. In my humble opinion, Apple does a lot of stuff. Jobs would filter out the ugly and stupid, so Apple appeared a lot cooler than some random fortune 500 company.

I'm skeptical of Apple ever regaining a filter like that. I think, they'll lumber around for a few years while their products lose mystique. It's not that their products are much different than android, it's that Apple will lose its super cool image by doing things like suing samsung.

Mr Jobs put a great image on the company. In an age where dell would make you sit on hold for hours, then do a dance where you replace certain parts, Apple would just send you a new one. Being hassle free in an age of hassle is just one example.

Suing Samsung was Jobs' legacy. He was planning to do it himself if he lived long enough. He was incredibly petty, especially for an intellectual property thief.

What notable IP did Jobs steal? You don't mean the Xerox PARC stuff, I hope.

"We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."

Triumph of the Nerds (1996)

source: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs

As everyone around here likes to quote endlessly: You can't patent an idea. What notable intellectual property did Jobs the "thief" steal?

Same goes for the Samsung lawsuit. What notable intellectual property did Samsung the "thief" steal?

Give it a rest.

I don't know what Apple stole/didn't steal. But do you remember what the number 1 selling phone was before the iPhone? According to Wikipedia it was a Nokia 1200. I had a Motorola Razr.

Jobs and Apple were a decade ahead of their competition.

No person or company is perfect. Apple does some things very right, and some things very wrong, and I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out instances of both.

If Apple were a person it would be psychopathic.

But Apple isn't a person and anthropomorphizing a corporation is pointless. Companies don't act with the same motivations as people do, while there are some general principles that can be seen at work in both human colonies and corporates in the market, and while a process similar to evolution (where startups are the mutant DNA experiments) can be seen at work in moving the market, companies act in the interest of their shareholders. Even if the analogy were to hold, I don't think you've characterized Apple accurately.

The analogy of corporations/market place and human colonies is an interesting one that has ramifications through society all the way to the Supreme Court, but I think the flippant remark about Apple lacking empathy, or being fearless or lacking responsibility is rather like thinking a dolphin is smiling at you at sea world.

Name a large and successful corporation that isn't.

I still am not a fan of apple and it's views on software patents. I also don't consider Steve Jobs to be a personal hero of mine.

A lot of us don't like to say anything when apple or some blogger puts up a tribute to Jobs. It isn't because we don't have convictions, it's because we have respect for the dead.

The subset of the 'crowd' hating on Apple is not necessarily the same as its 'fanboys'. In fact they're probably mostly mutually exclusive.

The Apple mapping debacle frustrated lots of Apple fanbois as well.

Why should people that 'hate' Apple be frustrated at the new map apps.

Both are generalisations. Besides, Apple was simply the first to do some of these things, or the first to do it well. But many were inevitable.

> Apple was simply the first to do some of these things, or the first to do it well. But many were inevitable.

The hover car is inevitable. Should I not be amazed at one when I see it?

I guess not, because whoever makes it will "simply" be the first to do the inevitable.

Well, the App Store was accidental, for example. I have no evidence of this, except that it would have been fairly obvious to Apple that, having had the iTunes Store, and sold apps this way before, letting any developer make apps would be great.

One can respect what a guy like Jobs did to promote and advance innovation mutually exclusive of the ethics of the guy and the company.

In some ways, I think of jobsy as a great filterer - very focused. Both of your statements are somewhat true if you consider that perspective. Jobsy made a big difference by picking the best and putting it together. However, what was put together was largely taken from others. Fickle? Maybe - just not as one dimensional as it may first appear to be.

Amazing how drawing two biased samples from a population can result in differing observations!