John Carmack on Mutable Variables

Re:John Carmack on Mutable Variables by bmacho on Friday October 31, 2025 @05:29PM (#45776908)

You don't have to use recursion, that is, you don't need language support for it. Having first class (named) functions is enough.

For example you can modify sum such that it doesn't depend on itself, but it depends on a function, which it will receive as argument (and it will be itself).

Something like:

  def sum_(f, l):
    if not l: return 0
    return l[0] + f(f, l[1:])

  def runreq(f, *args):
    return f(f, *args)

  print(runreq(sum_, [1,2,3]))

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Re:John Carmack on Mutable Variables by DemocracyFTW2 on Saturday November 01, 2025 @02:22AM (#45779627)

> You don't have to use recursion

You're using recursion. `runreq()` calls `sum_()` which calls `sum()` in `return l[0] + f(f, l[1:])`, where `f` is `sum()`

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Re:John Carmack on Mutable Variables by bmacho on Saturday November 01, 2025 @11:34AM (#45782480)

> You're using recursion.

No, see GP.

> `runreq()` calls `sum_()` which calls `sum()` in `return l[0] + f(f, l[1:])`, where `f` is `sum()`

Also no, see GP.

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Re:John Carmack on Mutable Variables by DemocracyFTW2 on Saturday November 01, 2025 @05:01PM (#45785308)

I am too stupid to understand this. This:

    def sum_(f, l):
      if not l: return 0
      return l[0] + f(f, l[1:])

    def runreq(f, *args):
      return f(f, *args)

    print(995,runreq(sum_, range(1,995)))
    print(1000,runreq(sum_, range(1,1000)))

when run with python3.11 gives me this output:

    995 494515
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "/tmp/sum.py", line 9, in <module>
        print(1000,runreq(sum_, range(1,1000)))
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
      File "/tmp/sum.py", line 6, in runreq
        return f(f, *args)
               ^^^^^^^^^^^
      File "/tmp/sum.py", line 3, in sum_
        return l[0] + f(f, l[1:])
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^
      File "/tmp/sum.py", line 3, in sum_
        return l[0] + f(f, l[1:])
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^
      File "/tmp/sum.py", line 3, in sum_
        return l[0] + f(f, l[1:])
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^
      [Previous line repeated 995 more times]
    RecursionError: maximum recursion depth exceeded in comparison

A RecursionError seems to indicate there must have been recursion, no?

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