> "In our 2023 reliability survey, 17 percent of 2013 Tesla Model S owners told us their cars needed battery pack replacements at a cost of $15,000 each."

What was the remaining range for those replacements?

> Granted, perhaps batteries were just crappier back then,

Tesla makes its own batteries right? When did that start?

> but 17% is a scary high number for me.

Is that high? I have no idea. How many ICE powertrains got replaced at the same time and what did it cost?

> What was the remaining range for those replacements?

Who cares? Spending $15K on battery on a used car is a hard "No!", unless the car is under $10K.

I'm thinking of buying another car next year. $15K is my budget for an ICE car - and only if it has all the bells and whistles. Otherwise it's $12K. Spending another $15K on top of that is ridiculous.

> Is that high? I have no idea. How many ICE powertrains got replaced at the same time and what did it cost?

I'd love to know. All I have are anecdotes.

> Who cares?

Well I do because I only need to drive at most 75 miles a day and even a car with 30 miles of range would satisfy my commute requirements.

> Spending $15K on battery on a used car is a hard "No!", unless the car is under $10K.

Can you get a better car for $25,000.00? Would you spend $15,000.00 on a $1000.00 car?

>>> What was the remaining range for those replacements?

>> Who cares? Spending $15K on battery on a used car is a hard "No!", unless the car is under $10K.

> Well I do because I only need to drive at most 75 miles a day and even a car with 30 miles of range would satisfy my commute requirements.

The point is that when comparing dollar for dollar, I can likely get a used ICE for the same price that will work out better for me. If I already had an ICE car and was looking for a second car just for daily commutes, the EV may make sense. But the hassle of having to get a rental for longer trips - I don't know if it's worth it.

Also have to consider resale value - will people buy the (already used) EV from me if the battery has significantly reduced range?

(BTW, in my social circle, I don't know anyone who's bought a used EV - they all buy new ones out of fear)

> Can you get a better car for $25,000.00?

I have a list of things I want and need from a car. I can find plenty ICE for $15K that matches my requirements. $25K is the max I'll go for an EV, figuring that I may save $10K over about 8-10 years in gas based on the calculators I've used.

I can't find even one EV that matches my requirements for $25K. Each one has some problem - too little room or some other annoying problem (e.g. Ioniq 5 not having rear wipers).

I can get great ICE cars for $15K. I cannot get a single used great EV for $25K.

> I can get great ICE cars for $15K. I cannot get a single used great EV for $25K.

You absolutely can get good used EVs for $25,000.00. That buys a 2022-2024 Kia Niro. You can get the 2019 model for even less, barely more than your ICE budget. 2023 Nissan Leafs are also around $15,000. All of these cars still have 70,000 miles and 5-9 years on their factory battery warranties.

> You absolutely can get good used EVs for $25,000.00.

You're missing my context: I'm not saying "good" by some objective standard, but in terms of my preferences for a car. When most people go car shopping, they have an idea of what attributes they want (leg room, cargo space, safety features, fuel efficiency, etc).

What I was saying was that I can find many ICE cars at $15K that meet all my requirements, but none at $25K.

I spent a lot of time pondering the Kia Niro, Chevy Bolt and Hyundai Kona - all deficient in some way or other. I realized that had they been regular ICE cars, I would not have wasted any time on them, and that I shouldn't get a car I wouldn't otherwise like just because it's an EV. They're totally good cars for some people, but not me.

Ioniq 5 came really close, but lots of people have AC problems that they so far have not fixed. Simply not an option.