Physical pain is subjective too. What isn't?

It also appears all the qualifiers are removed, for example

* Often appears not to be listening when spoken to

* Frequently loses items required for tasks and activities

* Is frequently easily distracted by extraneous stimuli

* Often forgets daily activities

* Is frequently reluctant to engage in tasks which require sustained attention

and so on.

Everyone forgets a name or a word every once in a while and that doesn't mean they are senile, yet we recognize senility exists past a threshold.

but the threshold is vague and arbirtary.

As it is with the other examples. So if it can't be measured it doesn't exist? Is this the dead spirit of Robert McNamara?

>So if it can't be measured it doesn't exist? Nah. If its vague and arbitrary maybe it should be the basis of a medical condition

Then I guess it's a good thing you're not a doctor, because that's life -- trying to make the best of subjective/incomplete information

and theres nothing subjective about a broken leg, no two doctors would disagree on a broken leg like they would disagree over mental health conditions. you meant to say physical "health" is subjective, ie what we class as "unhealthy".

I meant physical "pain", which is why we have subjective scales (1-10, faces) and one can't tell if someone's just faking it for drugs

Additional context.

> Symptoms and/or behaviors that have persisted ≥ 6 months in ≥ 2 settings (e.g., school, home, church). Symptoms have negatively impacted academic, social, and/or occupational functioning. Inpatients aged < 17 years, ≥ 6 symptoms are necessary; in those aged ≥ 17 years, ≥ 5 symptoms are necessary.

Clearly these aren't saying "have they ever misplaced anything?" or "have they ever forgotten anything?". Sure, most people have had some of these things happen some of the time. Yeah, all kids find homework boring, but most kids are still able to do it. Most kids forget things, but aren't losing multiple coats every winter. Most people aren't experiencing these symptoms to such a degree that it significantly impacts their ability to function.

Most people aren't experiencing these symptoms to such a degree that it significantly impacts their ability to function.

it only has to negatively impact academic, social or occupational functioning - according to the patient or parent. ie its subjective, anyone can claim to be having a bad time and that "hey i forget things, im a clutz!" now i have adhd.

i'm confused as to why you think you're suddenly the arbiter of the lived experience of others? all of the questions you're asking are things that are easily found online, but something makes me think you're not after knowledge.

Are you really here trying to claim that ADHD is not a real developmental disorder? To a bunch of people who have lived all their lives with ADHD?

Yes, the symptoms of ADHD are mostly things that most people experience sometimes in their lives. The reason it's a disorder is because they occur commonly enough to affect our lives.

This is not that dissimilar from many other neurodivergencies and mental health issues: Many people feel anxious from time to time. Many people enjoy the rush of gambling from time to time. Most people do not have clinical anxiety or gambling addiction.

Next time you're tempted to come into a thread of people talking about a widely-recognized developmental disorder or mental health problem and drop your superior wisdom that actually, it's not real, and you're much more rational and intelligent than we all are, because you can recognize that the diagnostic criteria are "subjective," which is the same as saying they're meaningless, please consider turning off your computer and going outside instead.

> Many people feel anxious from time to time...Most people do not have clinical anxiety.

This is the point Im trying to make to you. Just because youre forgetful, awkward socially, clumsy or find things boring - you dont have a disorder.

Pain is entirely subjective and self reported, but we are still pretty sure it exists, and we have medical treatments for it.

Pain is a symptom not a disease

Im not saying clumsiness, anxiety or forgetfulness dont exist either

Does fibromyalgia exist? Tension headaches? What about chronic fatigue or irritable bowel syndrome? How are they diagnosed?

Whats that got to do with clumsiness and forgetfulness being a disease?

They are all subjective, arbitrary, "not observable", "in the mind", "not objective"

Pain is a symptom of all those diseases, which is why is said "Pain is a symptom not a disease"

Yet the threshold is vague and arbitrary

And with ADHD youre saying im more clumsy than normal, but we cannot define normal and we cannot even define abnormal - its completely upto the patient to say if they think its abnormal - unless its a kid then its normally the parent making the claim