Bull-fucking-shit. I don't understand the mentality that because someone pays me for 40+ hours of work per week, they think they own me and can demand that I work exclusively for them, or that anything I do in my own time belongs to them. If my work suffers, or if I'm stealing IP or clients, that's another story. But if I'm working on something in my own time, fuck you if you think you own it.

You cannot work for another person while running your own business. A business becomes the centre of a person's universe and an employee's work will suffer if they are building a genuine business on the side. No amount of dramatic profanity will change that reality.

Of all the vigorous down-mods and "you're wrong!" comments I've received here in response, I've yet to read a single real-world example of a person who has a full-time employee on staff working on their own business, or who is a full-time employee working on their own business while being paid a salary by another company.

Why? Because you're an employee or you're an entrepreneur. Those are not compatible mind-sets.

If you work for me and want to start your own company, great! I'll happily send you on your way and offer every bit of support I possibly can to ensure your success, but I won't pay you to build your own business.

My own personal experience was much as you say. (I kept my day job for 8 months while trying to do my startup on the side.) Eventually I found that the startup was all-consuming, I couldn't concentrate well on my day job, so I quit.

I can't help thinking that maybe this is because of my inexperience as an entrepreneur, though. Because several people have created successful startups while employed by someone else. Steve Wozniak did the Apple I, video controllers, floppy disks, and all sorts of other hardware while employed by HP. Pierre Omidyar created E-bay and grew it to profitability before he quit his day job. Joshua Schacter wrote del.icio.us while employed by Morgan Stanley. Bill Gates grew Microsoft while both he and Paul Allen were employed by Altair.

You're clearly not reading carefully, because I pointed out examples where I've done this, and I'm sure many others have as well. Most businesses are started on the side of something else, including most successful businesses. While it's likely true that you can't indefinitely work as an employee while building a business, you can certainly start a business that way, and it's been done many, many times before.

I'm not arguing that you shouldn't have the right to fire someone if you don't like them working on something else on their own time, just that your mindset is indicative of a larger management problem of viewing your employees as assets that you own 24/7. Why would anyone of value want to work somewhere like that? There are plenty of people out there who value output over input and understand that an employee's personal life is none of their business.

Put someone on your payroll full-time with benefits, paid vacation and sick leave and then encourage them to start a business on their own time while you pay them full wages. Then you'll have something to crow about.

This just simply isn't true. Imagine if your CFO gets caught with hookers and blow by the cops on a Saturday night. It may not affect his work during work hours but it most definitely negatively affects your company from a PR perspective.

So you just can't make a blanket statement like that.

It wasn't obvious but it sounds like we agree so no harm done:)

BTW, between your post and mine up-thread, that's 5 examples. Microsoft, Apple, E-bay, Del.icio.us, and PlentyOfFish.

That they know of! It's not exactly the kind of thing most sensible people would draw attention to.

Why the silence? Because starting a business while working full-time for another employer does not work, and any person who has started their own software development company would understand why.

I can't believe that anyone worth anything would choose to work for a company that believed that it owned them even after hours.

Running a business isn't a hobby: It takes all of your attention, day and night.

I'm not paying employees to start their own business, I'm paying them to work on mine.

edit: I know this chafes with the 'free spirits' on this site who haven't found the guts to start an actual business yet, but I promise you'll find it's true when it's your cash going out as wages.

Or are you just assuming that the side business would make the employee less productive to an unacceptable point (a fine reason to let someone go, but that a side business would cause this is still just an assumption).

Let me know then how well you'd do as an employee working for someone else, and if you'd be eager to hire on staff with the same "starting a company on-the-side" mindset.

I have no problem hiring someone who is going to start something with their own time, as long as they do the job I hire them to do. Back when I was an employee, I was always pursuing ventures on the side, and without exception, my employers were supportive and sad to see me go when I left, for the simple reason that I did my job.

You don't own your employees.

That's one of the best answers yet. Anything else is entirely unacceptable. (And reminds me of amazon, worst place I've ever worked.)

If they're getting their work done, then you as an employer have no right to complain about what they're doing with their own time and equipment, end of story.

Stealing IP is a different issue altogether, of course -- and that's never acceptable.

However... the main reason that I pursue side projects is that my work fails to offer an intellectual challenge for me. I get my job done, and then hunt for intellectual exercise in order to keep my brain in shape.

Unfortunately, I rarely find that at work.

There's a big difference.

If you retain a contractor, you're one of their clients and any improvements they make to their business benefits you.

If an employee on your payroll starts a business, they're not doing so with your best interest in mind and their work's focus will change accordingly.

Ah...I see. You're looking for employees whose primary interest is enriching your life, not what's in it for them. Good luck with that.

There will in theory come a time when my side efforts will require effort enough to get in the way of my regular job, which is in fact the goal, but I have the integrity to face that -- and when I reach that stage, I'll leave the regular job.

If you're running a small business where everyone working for you has to put in 80-hour weeks in order to keep up with their work, then the fault is yours for your poor management -- though to be honest, I'd never consider working for you just because of your attitude toward your ownership of me.

Get it straight: you don't own your employees, period. What they do when they're on the clock is your business. Everything else is not. If you can't get that through your head, you shouldn't be attempting to run a business that requires employees. That's not an opinion, it's actually law -- don't forget, we abolished slavery.

Fuck. That. Shit.

Everyone is a contractor. There is no loyalty on either side of the employer-employee relationship. It is a hurtful delusion to harbor fantasies otherwise.

Judge an employee on their performance. Nothing more, nothing less.

What happens off the clock is none of your business. Literally.

I'm still waiting to read of even a single example of a full-time employee who is working on (not preparing for) a business of their own while collecting a full-time salary. If it's such an awesome thing, there must be dozens of examples to choose from, right?

Why the silence? Because that employment arrangement does not work, and any person running their own full-time business would know why.

Working as a contractor while getting your business up and running? Great! That'll work fine.

Working as a full-time employee while starting a business? Doesn't work.

If you walk the talk and start your own company, you'll understand why you wouldn't want to be paying a person out of your own pocket while they're going through that process.

Quit worrying about what this employee can or can't do. Pay attention to what he does or doesn't do.

You're an entrepreneur or you're an employee. You cannot mix the two, and if you find the pills to start a business yourself you'll understand why.

Joshua Schachter, Delicious. It's rare, but not unheard-of.