Whenever you type that, you usually want has_many :through anyway :)
Let's say i have categories that have many products but many products fit into several categories. Or I have a games with several players but players can play in several games?
Am I wrong to you has_and_belongs_to_many without using has_many :through?
Anyways thanks for the response and I guess I will have to truly learn ruby.
First Note on Rails: has_and_belongs_to_many is painfully long to type.