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Re:On The Meaning of Ritual by PaulHoule on Tuesday July 08, 2025 @10:45PM (#44505932)
I don't take cultural appropriation seriously at all if the victim is China (or Japan or India.) A friend of mine visited China one Christmas season and saw a Santa Claus figure crucified at the the top of a tree. If they can mangle our culture that bad we can do what we like.

As for Charlatanism I'm just going to invoke Nietzsche insofar as "the will to appearance, illusion, deception, becoming and change (to objective deception) is here taken to be more profound, more primordial, more metaphysical than the will to truth, reality and being"

Today I'm inclined to ask "how many neurotypicals can dance on the head of a pin?" and I'm seriously concerend with the "ahistorical turn" insofar as a lot of people don't want to think about the 1990s or the 1970s never mind the 1910s.

If we're going to deceive ourselves we might as well draw from the largest cultural library and have some diversity in our misconceptions. A year ago I read all the Poul Anderson books that I skipped (read Heinlein, Pohl, Smith, Niven, Asmiov, ...) and really appreciated that all of his aliens were religious, the kind of "people" who wouldn't let you use circular wheels (holy!) and even if you used

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuleaux_triangle

you'd get spoken to very harshly by your superiors in the Polesotechnic League. Here on Earth though faith healing and exorcism have been first and second line treatments for many conditions as described in

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1991-97489-000

and if a person who had an intractable problem found Milton Erickson and had a strange conversation and then forgot they had a problem or if a person speaking in the name of a fox [1] pronounces in front of a crowd (containing the thief) that a stolen object will be found in a certain place and gives the thief an easy out... what's wrong with that? Is it any worse than people believing false statements such as "Paroxetine corrects a chemical imbalance?"

[1] who perhaps became something more than vulpine by practicing Daoist cultivation

Re:On The Meaning of Ritual by alganet on Tuesday July 08, 2025 @11:18PM (#44506066)
Coprolalia (either voluntarily, by satire, or as a suggested mechanism) is an appropriate response to both my exxagerated analysis (I did provide a quick summary in the beginning though) and _also_ in tone with the idea of charlatanism (in the sense of molding rethoric).

Mine stands without the extras though.

Re:On The Meaning of Ritual by gsf_emergency_2 on Wednesday July 09, 2025 @12:12AM (#44506277)
Sorry bro, skepticism of your sort still sounds like shallow-but-dressed-up anti-intellectualism. Just like asking people to eat shit in the fanciest way. Neither interesting, nor productive.

Unless you are European literary critic or something, then the interesting bit is why you are on HN

Re:On The Meaning of Ritual by PaulHoule on Wednesday July 09, 2025 @10:12AM (#44510287)
I could box with him all day always stepping to the side with questions like "Do I blame Carlos Castenada or do I blame the people who believed in him?" but to get back to the origin:

Confucius is utterly devoid of "woo" (巫) and is much closer to Aristotle and company than he is to Mary Baker Eddy. Likewise, there's a big Chinese literature in psychology where you'll find things that I believe are true on any level (sadness suppresses anger: try reading names at the war memorial when you are angry but can't be) that are hard to find or absent in Western literature.

Re:On The Meaning of Ritual by alganet on Wednesday July 09, 2025 @10:28AM (#44510468)
You're clearly confused. Doing these rethoric stunts is not something to be proud of.
Re:On The Meaning of Ritual by gsf_emergency_2 on Wednesday July 09, 2025 @07:12PM (#44515658)
>sadness suppresses anger

The Chinese v. of that really requires a link! It's nearly a chengyu but I don't know if Douyin is surfacing truly new ones these days

Problem with most things-- help us GPT-- you have to dig through a alot of chaff to get to the wheat

Another aspect of the curiosity vs agency tradeoff..?

Re:On The Meaning of Ritual by alganet on Wednesday July 09, 2025 @08:25PM (#44516077)
I have a question: how did you guys expected me to react?
Re:On The Meaning of Ritual by gsf_emergency_2 on Wednesday July 09, 2025 @08:32PM (#44516108)
Not in a good (curious, friendly) way :)

To be fair, I think you have a point about people latching on to eastern "woo" but that (your stance) comes across as victim-blaming (=not as heroic OR as fresh as you might imagine it to be)..

Not sure you intended such a interpretation, but I suspect you might also blame us for that :)

I haven't seen any interesting solutions to the uh "skepticism vs openness" dilemma, you haven't pointed to any either, but maybe trying to understand what the relative value of different approaches are may help

By different "approaches" I mean, in the current context, fresh ways of distilling the non-wooness in non-western uh data

Re:On The Meaning of Ritual by alganet on Wednesday July 09, 2025 @09:00PM (#44516234)
I see, the problem was in assuming that I want to present myself as an original thinker.

I'll keep my longstanding tradition of explaining exactly how I work: I have no interest in competing for an audience of hot takes on things. _Skepticism is old_, I dusted it from an old shelf. Of course it's not fresh.

So, I can attribute all the harshness that came across from me to your provokations. That's very generous. I didn't needed it though, and I don't accept gifts from strangers.

Re:On The Meaning of Ritual by alganet on Wednesday July 09, 2025 @10:26AM (#44510450)
Why should I be disappointed? I just made a charlatan do a bozo stunt to try to get out of a corner.