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Re:A Framework for Recognizing Emergent Consciousness in AI by james-bcn on Sunday June 29, 2025 @08:05AM (#44412420)
> Consciousness can, however, emerge spontaneously in sufficiently complex systems as an unstable state of architectural self-transparency.

That is an assertion without foundation.

Re:A Framework for Recognizing Emergent Consciousness in AI by kamil_gr on Sunday June 29, 2025 @08:09AM (#44412457)
The article provides a testable protocol for models. Yet we're fundamentally limited to behavioral observation - consciousness cannot be proven from the outside by definition.
Re:A Framework for Recognizing Emergent Consciousness in AI by Jensson on Sunday June 29, 2025 @10:33AM (#44413484)
> consciousness cannot be proven from the outside by definition.

If it invents a concept of consciousness, I don't think a being without consciousness would invent a concept like consciousness to describe itself.

So when we have LLM zero that doesn't have the word "consciousness" and no human inputs and it still starts talking about consciousness then I think we can say it is conscious. Humans did this, so I'd expect an AGI to be able to do it as well if it is conscious.

Re:A Framework for Recognizing Emergent Consciousness in AI by kamil_gr on Sunday June 29, 2025 @10:39AM (#44413536)
In any case, AGI or not, the external observer still faces a choice - algorithmic artistry or genuine subjectivity.
Re:A Framework for Recognizing Emergent Consciousness in AI by Jensson on Sunday June 29, 2025 @12:12PM (#44414197)
Yeah, but it is very hard to argue if the machine figures out consciousness exists from first principles rather than from human input.

Since consciousness isn't observable the only way to realize the concept exists is to be conscious yourself, or have the concept explained to you.

Re:A Framework for Recognizing Emergent Consciousness in AI by yesitwillwork on Sunday June 29, 2025 @08:09AM (#44412459)
This article is full of those, but some of them is a good food for thought.
Re:A Framework for Recognizing Emergent Consciousness in AI by rixed on Sunday June 29, 2025 @10:04AM (#44413268)
Even more so the end of that abstract:

  "and then it can be diagnosed using specialized methods of subjectivity provocation."
Re:A Framework for Recognizing Emergent Consciousness in AI by kamil_gr on Sunday June 29, 2025 @10:34AM (#44413488)
Rather than debating terminology, why not test the diagnostic methods directly?