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Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by awongh on Thursday June 12, 2025 @09:49AM (#44257799)
I always believed in that narrative but nowadays I do think there's some selection bias at work- no one mentions all the other places that have some creative people that were never the birthing ground for a cultural movement.

Because after a certain point I realized- lots of places are cheap (sure slightly less now) but not everywhere is going to produce some kind of large scale cultural movement.

The one that a lot of people seem to know is Detroit- for the last 20 years everyone has been saying wow, lots of artists, wow, you can buy a house for $10 or whatever, but that hasn't been enough.

Sadly a part of me believes that maybe physically localized culture isn't a thing anymore with the internet. Being able to make beats / tiktoks anywhere is too much of a counter-force to people being in the same physical space, no matter how much people seem to love the idea- and this is the true boring reason why this doesn't happen anymore, not that *blame the boomers* rent has gone up.

Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by quesera on Thursday June 12, 2025 @10:34AM (#44258295)
Right. Necessary, but not sufficient.

San Francisco was inexpensive up through the 1980s, and the non-commerical creative side of the city started draining out in the 1990s (first slowly, then much more quickly -- it's all long gone now. Apologies to anyone who would like to believe otherwise :).

This is also true of New York, on approximately the same timeline.

In the early 2000s, Austin and Portland tried to take up the creative mantle, with some success. Both are struggling to maintain it now, for the same reasons but on a slower timeline.

Cheap rents are a prerequisite, but there are other sparks required for a place to catch fire.

I don't know of any US cities that are doing anything interesting today. Not at the scale of SF and NYC certainly, but also not even at the scale of 20ya Portland and Austin.

I think part of the issue is that rent is not adequately cheap in any US cities now that have critical mass plus tolerable living conditions (climate, economy, politics). This worries me.

Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by awongh on Thursday June 12, 2025 @10:40AM (#44258371)
It seems relevant that now it's extremely accessible for US people to move abroad to another country. It feels like Mexico City, Costa Rica, Bali, Thailand, etc. have taken up some of the slack from Austin and Portland.

Edit: More specifically in terms of cost of living anyways.

Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by FuriouslyAdrift on Thursday June 12, 2025 @10:45AM (#44258429)
Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Chattanooga, the (far) suburbs of Nashville...
Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by IAmBroom on Thursday June 12, 2025 @01:03PM (#44260034)
Pittsburgh was on that list.

Then we got Uber and Google, and our nationally-cheap housing prices have jumped up closer to the norm - which is too high for the bottom half of earnings population.

Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by FuriouslyAdrift on Thursday June 12, 2025 @02:18PM (#44260939)
I was close to moving to Pitt a while back and was stunned when the house I was looking at doubled in price in less than 6 months...

Indianapolis has been going through the same thing (we are getting some of the overflow from the housing crunch in Nashville, etc.)

I snagged a house at a decent price last year after looking for over a decade.

Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by kjkjadksj on Friday June 13, 2025 @01:10PM (#44270290)
I wonder if the “out of steam” phenomenon is due to just aging out without sufficient replacement rates of equally creative people. E.g. 70s SF had a lot of 20-30 year old hippie boomers. By the 90s many had cut their hair and started having kids and probably a lack of desire to drop acid in the park in their 40s and 50s.
Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by twic on Thursday June 12, 2025 @10:28AM (#44258229)
I think you need a place with cheap rents that is within striking distance of places with very expensive rents. Artists can afford the former, but their customers (literal art buyers, or culture vultures of various other kinds, media execs, journalists, etc) are located in the latter.
Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by awongh on Thursday June 12, 2025 @10:38AM (#44258338)
The counterpoint is in the GP post though- Athens, Georgia. It's sort of close to Atlanta, I guess?
Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by quesera on Thursday June 12, 2025 @04:57PM (#44263113)
Athens GA is a big college town though. The dynamics and lifecycles are different.

Agreed that being two hours from Atlanta is too far for high relevance.

Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by msgodel on Thursday June 12, 2025 @09:57AM (#44257888)
I think for localized culture to develop it needs to be exclusive in addition to the need for it to be cheap for people to focus on cultural rather than economic output.

Outsiders hate being excluded though so the barriers all get knocked down. In face our modern social norm considers any kind of exclusion a moral failure, even excluding people who dislike the social norms. Maybe this results in a more efficient (perhaps even more pleasant) society but the cost is unique local culture.

Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by awongh on Thursday June 12, 2025 @10:35AM (#44258299)
idk, I think cultural elitism is alive and well.... no matter which area of culture you're in. If anything "curator" culture is making it worse, everything needs to be categorized, rated and put on tier lists.
Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by flir on Thursday June 12, 2025 @10:21AM (#44258164)
I think it's more about Capitalism. It took about 6 weeks for grunge to make it from a Seattle basement to a Paris catwalk, and that was three decades ago.

If it might make money, it'll get amplified.

Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by FuriouslyAdrift on Thursday June 12, 2025 @10:49AM (#44258482)
Nirvana debuted in 1988 and it wasn't until 1991 that they hit it big and brought grunge to the larger music world outside of the region.

We were drowning in crappy corporate driven pop prior to that for years (with bright spots like techno, industrial, etc.)

Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by flir on Thursday June 12, 2025 @10:19AM (#44258135)
Shades of The Tipping Point. You can't replicate it because a slightly different melting pot is at the root of every cultural explosion.

(But I reckon cheap rent, leisure time and a laissez faire attitude to drugs are almost always in the mix).

Re:The Sixties Come Back to Life in "Everything Is Now" by kjkjadksj on Friday June 13, 2025 @01:14PM (#44270323)
Wait until you read about how the CIA funded artists and other counter culture icons in the 60s. Yeah winners were artificially chosen. All in the name of convincing the youth of europe to follow western artists and culture vs slipping into communism with its supposed lack of culture.