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Re:Plain Vanilla Web by bradly on Sunday May 11, 2025 @11:49PM (#43959472)
> People romanticize businesses like this but there’s a reason you’re not posting the link

You are correct that I was a worried about an HN hug of orders for brass tacks.

> I guess I’ve spent enough time dealing with things like non-payment or doing work for trades that never arrive that I just don’t romanticize this stuff any more.

In this case there isn't much of a choice. When the last manufacture of brass tacks closed down, John bought the machinery and is the only place I know of to get proper shaker-style brass tacks in the US. I wanted the tacks, so I had no choice in the method of payment.

I understand your sentiment but it was perfectly normal to pump gas before paying in the U.S. for a very long time and still is in many places. In other cities it is unheard of. Restaurants we can still eat before paying, but not many other places still give consumers much trust.

Re:Plain Vanilla Web by Aurornis on Monday May 12, 2025 @12:07AM (#43959555)
> I understand your sentiment but it was perfectly normal to pump gas before paying in the U.S. for a very long time and still is in many places.

I had a friend who worked at a gas station in high school. Filing police reports for people who filled up and left without paying was a standard part of operations.

This was in a nice area, too. Often people just forgot and drove away. They had recourse because they had security cameras and people had license plates. The cities where you’re forced to pay inside first probably have police departments that don’t respond to non-payment as gas stations.

If someone showed up with a gas can or something they were instructed to shut off the pump and make them come inside to pay. It wasn’t as much of an honor system as it seems if you’re not familiar with it.

You can’t have a pay-later business without an amount of non-payment, which has to be compensated by higher prices (which other customers shoulder).

These are all choices a vendor can make. Something like this usually lasts right up until the secret gets out to a wider audience where the people who don’t care about social norms have no problem abusing a system left wide open.

Re:Plain Vanilla Web by Juliate on Monday May 12, 2025 @02:50AM (#43960280)
> You can’t have a pay-later business without an amount of non-payment, which has to be compensated by higher prices (which other customers shoulder).

People who never experienced high-trust and customs societies cannot grasp why and how it works infinitely better than low-trust ones.

But granted, all it takes is a few determined bad faith actors to break high-trust, when they are not vehemently and swiftly rejected…

Re:Plain Vanilla Web by int_19h on Monday May 12, 2025 @07:29AM (#43961836)
For this to work, you need society as a whole to participate in enforcement.

But we have created an environment where this kind of thing is unthinkable, not even because people won't do it, but because they will only create legal trouble for themselves if they try. So the modus operandi for your average citizen in Western societies in general and US in particular is to not get involved and leave it all to law enforcement.

Re:Plain Vanilla Web by zchrykng on Monday May 12, 2025 @10:27AM (#43963368)
Not to mention the people who actively vilify anyone who "snitches" on the person by turning them in to suffer the consequences of their own actions. Luigi anyone?
Re:Plain Vanilla Web by immibis on Monday May 12, 2025 @11:19AM (#43964045)
Can you elaborate?
Re:Plain Vanilla Web by Juliate on Monday May 12, 2025 @02:53PM (#43966343)
It is totally thinkable, and it does happen. However, you get to this by vetting people/customers in.

This is why some things can’t be found/bought without hetting the right path/contacts.

Re:Plain Vanilla Web by HappMacDonald on Monday May 12, 2025 @10:24AM (#43963327)
I don't know if I would classify "consume first, pay later" as high trust. Example: Hotel "honor bars".
Re:Plain Vanilla Web by IIsi50MHz on Monday May 12, 2025 @02:18PM (#43966008)
I'd expect the hotel to already have a payment method on file, and possibly have pre-cleared a large charge to hedge against consumption or damage (with unused portion of the charge removed during checkout).

Contrast with the typical restaurant.

Re:Plain Vanilla Web by Juliate on Monday May 12, 2025 @02:50PM (#43966316)
Hotels generally handle this very graciously, having indeed a pre-clearance on a payment method.

Moreover, trespassers, in addition to pursuit, often get flagged in a shared « do not host » book file across hotel lines.

Re:Plain Vanilla Web by Y_Y on Monday May 12, 2025 @05:56AM (#43961285)
> You can’t have a pay-later business without an amount of non-payment, which has to be compensated by higher prices (which other customers shoulder).

The business can just make less money than they would if everyone paid (which is, as you say, impossible). Costs and prices are linked in some markets, but it's not a natural law.

Re:Plain Vanilla Web by 4ndrewl on Monday May 12, 2025 @05:21PM (#43967569)
til you have to pay for your fuel before filling up in the USA.
Re:Plain Vanilla Web by femto on Monday May 12, 2025 @01:35AM (#43959934)
> brass tacks

An interesting story behind those:

https://blog.lostartpress.com/2023/02/07/john-wilson-1939-20...