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Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by jajko on Thursday May 01, 2025 @03:00AM (#43854492)
One way to travel, between certain destinations. Not so much in other cases.

Case point - Switzerland, the place of trains - coverage, precision, cleanness, small dense place. I live here. If you take a family of 4 they are roughly 4x more expensive than taking a car, even with their half-card (which for a family of four would be maybe 600 annually). Highways are still chock full of cars and its growing every year steadily. Unless you travel between train stations (or sometimes from city A to city B), but rather from/to rural areas (which are anyway connected via Post buses, having trains everywhere would ruin this country) they are much slower (ie 1h vs 3h to get to/from some mountain hiking spot). God forbid you want to travel further, cross sea or even big lake.

Don't look for salvation of personal transport there, that's a very definition of pipe dream currently.

Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by ViscountPenguin on Thursday May 01, 2025 @03:05AM (#43854520)
One nice thing is that trains niches can expand slowly overtime, and the marginal expense of running a train is much lower than the fixed cost of laying rail. As long as your government isn't dumb enough to rip up preexisting rail (here in Australia we got hit really badly by this in the 60s), the amortised cost of rail should only decrease.

The positive externalities of rail also make it cost effective to subsidize. Here in Queensland, all public transport now only costs 50c a trip (about 30 eurocents), making travel between our two largest cities (a trip of about 71km) super fast and cheap.

Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by ViscountPenguin on Thursday May 01, 2025 @03:06AM (#43854525)
Side note: I ran the numbers, and a trip from the gold coast to Gympie is now one of the cheapest per km train trips on earth. Only beaten by free train zones, and lower class seats on the trans Siberian.
Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by robocat on Thursday May 01, 2025 @10:53PM (#43865709)
> One nice thing is that trains niches can expand slowly overtime

Trains have been around long enough to fill their niches. There's a reason if they haven't.

Some of the headwinds are bad reasons (like status games of showing off your expensive car). However some of the reasons are because trains suck.

There's a train I love to take from my city on holiday, but it's rather inconvenient and costly.

Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by brnt on Thursday May 01, 2025 @03:56AM (#43854809)
People don't realize is that public transport works if it's a network. The denser the network, both in time and space, the better the options is.

Here in the Netherlands there's actually fewer routes than a 100 years ago (country was full of local 'intertown' trams then). Housing stock has expanded a few times over since the war, but rail routes (light of heavy) stayed put. It's ridiculous to build a 5000 home neighborhood and not plunk down some steel bars! Or at least reserve the space. Meanwhile, bus services are down YoY in frequency, reach. They now basically only serve as a last resort for those that really have no other options and thus can be forced to deal with incredible transit durations.

Even cycling, which in denser cities can absorb some of the commuter traffic, is not encouraged as part of mixed transport. Tax law is such that one modality can be compensated.

The Netherlands has none of the geology to deal with that Switzerland has, so I don't know what excuse there is. All energy went into cycling I suppose. Not bad, but it's about the network, and never about the one modality.

Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by sokoloff on Thursday May 01, 2025 @06:25AM (#43855823)
Isn’t the new bike parking facility next to Centraal in Amsterdam a massive counterexample? That clearly supports mixed-mode commuting, right?
Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by withinboredom on Thursday May 01, 2025 @06:55AM (#43856040)
You can do it because it’s easy, but when you file your taxes, you have to choose one to count as a tax break. In 2024, driving gave you the biggest tax break.
Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by sokoloff on Thursday May 01, 2025 @06:59AM (#43856076)
If government funds were used to build or finance the parking facility, I’d argue that’s taxes supporting/encouraging mixed mode commuting. (I have no idea if that was 100.00% private or not.)
Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by TimTheTinker on Thursday May 01, 2025 @11:20AM (#43858870)
It's insane to me that some countries have such high taxes that tax breaks on daily transportation choices become the most important variable when deciding which mode of transportation to use.
Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by brnt on Thursday May 01, 2025 @01:09PM (#43860481)
You should turn that around: if getting people off the road is something you really care about then make it pay.
Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by TimTheTinker on Thursday May 01, 2025 @04:18PM (#43862886)
I take no position on which mode of transportation is preferable for others to take (though I have my own preferences, to be sure).

Where I come from, taxes are comparatively low. So it's weird to see people talking about them influencing their behavior so significantly. That's a lot of power the government has... I'd rather keep my money than let bureaucrats spend it to manipulate the public's behavior.

Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by Symbiote on Thursday May 01, 2025 @04:22PM (#43862936)
Taxes spent on building roads presumably significant influence your behavior.

Taxing cars puts the cost of those roads more directly on the users of them.

Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by TimTheTinker on Thursday May 01, 2025 @11:19PM (#43865870)
I'm not talking about building infrastructure or paying directly for things that cost money for the government to do, I'm talking about market manipulation.
Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by brnt on Friday May 02, 2025 @11:08PM (#43876586)
Wait till you discover how capitalists manipulate markets...
Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by brnt on Thursday May 01, 2025 @10:00AM (#43857780)
In addition to sibling: the bike is, for many people, already, 'too cheap to meter', so the tax advantage goes to the train subscription. And quite some employers either give you a train subscription, or let you deduct kilometers travelled at some rate. That rate depends on modality, but the subscription for free is usually (always) a much better deal, _if_ you really don't need that car.

Whoever is left driving cars (which is, also in the Netherlands, a large fraction), can't for instance drive up to some remote train station, and rail the rest. That's how you can get those who still drive out of their cars; those that already take trains are covered by the rules as they are.

Re:Company built its own rail terminal in NYC to avoid relyi... by rsynnott on Thursday May 01, 2025 @07:45AM (#43856415)
Most travel is either in-city or intercity. Trains obviously cannot and should not cover every use case.