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Re:C. Elegans: The Worm That No Computer Scientist Can Crack by StopTheWorld on Sunday March 30, 2025 @10:36AM (#43524546)
> flipping quantum coins...Newsflash: neurons and digital computers both have to play by the universe's stubbornly deterministic rules

I don't really understand what this means - you obviously know at the smallest level things happen by random probability - because you mention the quantum world - but then you say the universe is deterministic.

Re:C. Elegans: The Worm That No Computer Scientist Can Crack by Aardwolf on Sunday March 30, 2025 @10:49AM (#43524638)
Computers can also include physics based random number generators so that's still simulatable. And analog computing also is possible. Quantum computing not really yet but theoretically possible.

Not sure if any other wizard hat things than those can extend classical digital computing

Re:C. Elegans: The Worm That No Computer Scientist Can Crack by nipah on Thursday April 03, 2025 @03:22PM (#43574179)
This is just partially a solution, because this assumes cognition as a whole is computable.
Re:C. Elegans: The Worm That No Computer Scientist Can Crack by FrustratedMonky on Sunday March 30, 2025 @11:08AM (#43524783)
Because randomness does not introduce agency.

Bringing up 'Quantum' effects to somehow free us from determinism and somehow introduce free will, is completely false. Somehow using the word "Quantum" explains human consciousness is wrong.

A coin flip is still determined. You don't know which way it will flip, but also, you aren't deciding which way it will flip. The future is determined either way, determined one way, or determined the other way.

Re:C. Elegans: The Worm That No Computer Scientist Can Crack by nipah on Thursday April 03, 2025 @03:19PM (#43574136)
It does not introduce, but maybe the combination of both does (see Searle points in freedom and neurobiology). You also need to prove that the future is determined, simply assuming so is an error.
Re:C. Elegans: The Worm That No Computer Scientist Can Crack by munksbeer on Tuesday April 01, 2025 @04:28AM (#43544210)
> you obviously know at the smallest level things happen by random probability

We don't actually know this. It is just what we observe that fits our map so far.

Re:C. Elegans: The Worm That No Computer Scientist Can Crack by nipah on Thursday April 03, 2025 @03:20PM (#43574161)
If you don't believe in God, actually you NEED to buy this, or buy into some other methaphysical eternalism that is as hard to prove as truly random events. The universe either started randomly or it was created, and the existence either existed eternally or it was created (both prospects are also problematic in some level, but at least it is something better than thinking you can not have a position on this and also assume that determinism is trivially true).
Re:C. Elegans: The Worm That No Computer Scientist Can Crack by dingnuts on Sunday March 30, 2025 @10:10AM (#43524346)
you're making a straw man argument and being an asshole about it to boot.

neurons aren't binary. who knows if they're special in a way digital computers can't simulate -- they aren't well understood.

nobody said anything about determinism besides you

Re:C. Elegans: The Worm That No Computer Scientist Can Crack by FrustratedMonky on Sunday March 30, 2025 @11:11AM (#43524804)
" digital computers either".

Most of the time someone brings up the word 'Digital' they are talking about 1's and 0's, and how everything is known and determined, and thus looses the ineffable human quality.

"they're special in a way digital computers can't simulate"

I might be making a straw man, but you are literally just saying "something magical that exists outside physics must be going on"

Re:C. Elegans: The Worm That No Computer Scientist Can Crack by nipah on Thursday April 03, 2025 @03:23PM (#43574206)
This is a strawman, but it also could be the case of it being something supernatural. You don't have the skill to enter in a serious discussion about that either, so calling it "magic" is the unique thing will help you here (as people are usually scared of things they can't explain).

But it would be the case that the universe is non-computable, and if this is the case, even without "magic", you would not be able to reproduce certain kinds of things (even not conscious ones) with a computer.