News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A love letter to the CSV format by xp84 on Thursday March 27, 2025 @12:59AM (#43490516)
I feel like YAML is a spiritual successor to the .ini, since it shares a notable ideal of simple human readability/writability.
Re:A love letter to the CSV format by estebank on Thursday March 27, 2025 @01:14AM (#43490568)
Whenever I ask myself "should I use YAML?" I answer myself "Norway".
Re:A love letter to the CSV format by Ygg2 on Thursday March 27, 2025 @05:33AM (#43491759)
To be fair to YAML that's been solved in 1.2.

https://yaml.org/spec/1.2.2/#10212-boolean

Re:A love letter to the CSV format by ElectricalUnion on Thursday March 27, 2025 @01:30AM (#43490624)
Given how YAML does magic and sometimes accidental type conversions of potentially nested objects, I think TOML is the well-defined sucessor to .ini
Re:A love letter to the CSV format by lelanthran on Thursday March 27, 2025 @01:53AM (#43490720)
> I feel like YAML is a spiritual successor to the .ini, since it shares a notable ideal of simple human readability/writability.

It doesn't feel that way to me: it's neither simple to read nor to write. I suppose that that's a builtin problem due to tree representation, which is something that INI files were never expected to represent.

TBH, I actually prefer the various tree representation workarounds used by INI files: using whitespace to indicate child nodes stops being readable once you have more than a screenful of children in a node.

Re:A love letter to the CSV format by consp on Thursday March 27, 2025 @04:23AM (#43491419)
YAML is readable? No way as there are too many ways to do the same thing and nested structures are unclear to the non trained eye (what is a list? What is nested?), let alone indentation in large files is an issue especially with the default 2 space unreadable standard so many people adhere to.

YAML simple? It's sepc is larger than XML... Parsing of numbers and strings is ambiguous, leading zeros are not strings but octal (implicit conversion...). List as keys? Oh ffs, and you said readable. And do not get me started about "Yes" being a boolean, reminds me of the MS Access localizations which had other decimal values for true and [local variant of true] (1 vs -1).

Writable? Even worse. I think I have never been able to write a YAML file without errors. But that might just be me, XML is fine though while unreadable.

Re:A love letter to the CSV format by HelloNurse on Thursday March 27, 2025 @04:54AM (#43491571)
Say "no" to YAML. As a string, if you can.
Re:A love letter to the CSV format by Ygg2 on Thursday March 27, 2025 @05:53AM (#43491857)
You can. YAML 1.2 is only 16 years old. Just old enough to drive. Norway problem has been solved for only 16 years.
Re:A love letter to the CSV format by HelloNurse on Thursday March 27, 2025 @06:34AM (#43492106)
YAML 1.2 leaves data types ambiguous, merely making the "Norway problem" optional and at the mercy of the application rather than, in the words of https://yaml.org/type/ (which has not been marked as deprecated), "strongly recommended".
Re:A love letter to the CSV format by Ygg2 on Thursday March 27, 2025 @10:27AM (#43494029)
Those schemas aren't part of the core schema, and you may interpret them if you are aiming for full 1.1 compatibility. If you're aiming for 1.1 compatibility, then you accept the Norway problem.

I've been looking in the specs and I can't find the link to the https://yaml.org/type/

Re:A love letter to the CSV format by xp84 on Monday March 31, 2025 @07:35PM (#43541208)
I agree that one could make wild YAML if you get into advanced stuff, but I make YAML files that look like this:

  things:
    - title: "A thing"
      item_id: "deadbeef-feb1-4e8c-b61c-dd9a7a9fffff"
      is_active: true
      favorite_formats:
        - yml
        - ini
    - title: "Another thing"
      item_id: "deadbeef-feb1-3333-4444-dd9a7a9fffff"
      is_active: false
      favorite_formats:
        - mp3
        - wav
Just because you can use it to create a monstrosity doesn't prevent it from being useful for simple configuration. Basically, it's just prettier JSON.
Re:A love letter to the CSV format by afiori on Thursday March 27, 2025 @04:39AM (#43491492)
I think GRON[1] would fit the bill better

[1] https://github.com/tomnomnom/gron