I don't think that's responsive to my comment. What I'm getting at is -- it is reasonable for police to use self-defense. So I'd expect higher police-on-civilian violence rates in places with higher civilian-on-police violence rates.

I don't accept the point that it's generally acceptable for police to use violence in self defense. It is easy to imagine the point where safety to the public demands an individual cop accept personal danger. This is widely understood, it is all over the messaging about the inherent heroism of policing. If they want the credit for this danger, they have to face the risk itself.

But anyway yeah we're way off track and your original point really seemed to be something like "but maybe the civilians deserve it" so I have not taken it seriously at any point and will continue not to.

Yeah, it seems like we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.