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Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by goshx on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:05PM (#43209735)
Can we take the opportunity to discuss why Trump's administration is so desperately going after rare earth minerals? Greenland, Canada, Ukraine...

Is it only about chips and AI for economic reasons or is there more involved like, an army of robots or something to control everything?

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by philipkglass on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:38PM (#43210292)
I don't think it makes any sense. Rare earth elements aren't actually very rare, they don't have a lot of market value compared to other minerals [1], and there are already abundant known deposits in North America (including the United States).

There are two main reasons that REE production is dominated by China. One is that Chinese production is low-cost. Two is that the total addressable market is small, so that (absent some long term price guarantee) opening another big REE production center outside of China will probably tank the market price and lose the investors money. See the history of the Mountain Pass mine in California:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Pass_Rare_Earth_Mine

This one mine produced most of the world's REE between 1965 and 1995. It closed in 2002 because it had a toxic spill that would be too expensive to remediate given the arrival of Chinese competition. In 2012 it reopened as a reaction to Chinese export restrictions on REE instated 2 years earlier. In 2015 global REE prices went back down and the Mountain Pass mine went bankrupt again. It resumed operating in 2018 after it was brought back out of bankruptcy. It relies on frosty US-China trade relations and government support to remain a going concern. There's not enough global demand for REE to keep Mountain Pass independently profitable whenever Chinese export restrictions get relaxed.

[1] In terms of total market value, I mean. Dysprosium has a high value per kilogram but the current annual demand for all rare earth elements combined is under $8 billion, compared to e.g. $20 billion for zinc alone.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by beefnugs on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:02PM (#43210780)
He is simple power hungry monkey: russian can attack countries and get away with it, israel can kill anyone they want, why cant his country? He just heard from his richest powercunt that he uses "rare earth" to make batteries, so he wants
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by bloopernova on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:11PM (#43209805)
It's coming from elon, who has courted russia for Ukraine's metals and minerals since at least the 2022 invasion.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by goshx on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:14PM (#43209845)
That's what I suspect as well, especially with the tesla bots, but there is also Ellison's influence
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by sebazzz on Saturday March 01, 2025 @04:19AM (#43217558)
SpaceX Flacon 9 nozzles contain nyobium which is mined in Ukraine. It has been a problem since that invasion, and one of the reasons SpaceX sometimes flies short stubby nozzles when possible.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by V__ on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:20PM (#43209949)
In the last Trump administration there were enough people handling him. This time there are only yes men, so anything we see, is him unstopped/unfiltered. Trump doesn't understand complexities just "winning", he understands that minerals are valuable so he wants them, that is it. He also wants the peace price, but he doesn't understand long term strategy or planning so this situation, this sudden shift and strong arming is him wanting to accomplish this goal now. He feels Putin is stronger so the goal is easier accomplished by forcing Ukraines hand.

If one views it trough the lens of: What a high school bully, who has no self control and can't delay gradification, would do... then nothing Trump does is surprising.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by donmcronald on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:29PM (#43210101)
I would like to know this too.

I have no idea, so this is pure speculation, but as charge cycles for batteries keep increasing I'm guessing they'll become more valuable, especially if they're made from finite resources. Consider a scenario where you never own the battery and have to lease it forever.

The opposite side would be choking off the supply of the rare minerals needed to make batteries with the intent of making it more difficult to switch to renewable energy. You'd need all of them though and I just don't see them improving their position in Canada.

Or it could be as simple as "gold is shiny" and Trump wants them because he's heard they're valuable.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by saturn8601 on Friday February 28, 2025 @06:43PM (#43213402)
Batteries can be nearly fully recycled. At least the critical materials can be (might lose plastics or epoxies). In fact the co-founder and former CTO of Tesla left to start a massive firm doing just that. That places a theoretical upper limit to demand for new materials.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by TheAlchemist on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:19PM (#43209938)
I think it's the same reason Musk is promoting his Mars bullshit.

This appears as very long term thinking, while in reality is a way to siphon money in the short term and sell whatever idea they currently have under this long term plan.

Not to say that it would be bad for US to own Greenland - of course it would be great. Mars too BTW...

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by pjc50 on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:34PM (#43210197)
Greenland is worthless, and having a long running territorial dispute with the entirety of Europe would be bad for all involved.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by TheAlchemist on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:38PM (#43210288)
Worthless ?

Given it's natural ressources and geographical position it's extremely intresting. But of coures the second part is right - it's just not in the realm of possible, without going to an ugly fight with Europe.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by forum-soon-yuck on Friday February 28, 2025 @03:44PM (#43210407)
Greenland is absolutely worthy in terms of being an easy target to set forth the precedent of US annexing other countries just like the Crimea did for Putin before the full-on invasion
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by dboreham on Friday February 28, 2025 @05:23PM (#43212456)
US has for all practical purposes owned Greenland since WW2.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by skippyboxedhero on Friday February 28, 2025 @04:23PM (#43211287)
There are almost no rare earth minerals in Ukraine. The "desperately going after rare earth minerals" line is something that has appeared in the media...but at no point did they actually check whether Ukraine has any (beyond comical maps that tell you nothing about the grade, recoverability, etc.).

The reason for the deal is: recover money for taxpayers, provide some security guarantee without an explicit commitment that will end up with US being deployed, and backstop significant private-sector investment into Ukraine to try to revive their economy (after the war destroyed and maimed a huge proportion of their working adult population).

There are (almost) no rare earth minerals though.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by dboreham on Friday February 28, 2025 @05:22PM (#43212424)
My take was the mineral deal was invented by Z (more likely staffers) as a clever ploy designed to appeal to T who is a colossal idiot and can only conceive of geopolitics as consisting of zero sum "deals" that one country makes with another. So they invented a deal. I always assumed it would be a shit deal for T, since idiot and all. But it seems he wanted the shit sandwich for free. Basically negotiated himself into no deal.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by skippyboxedhero on Saturday March 08, 2025 @04:53PM (#43303880)
No, it was likely invented by people on the US side. Politicians need wins, this is an easy win. It is a perfect deal: the US doesn't really need the money back, and Ukraine doesn't give anything away.