Treasury agrees to block DOGE's access to personal taxpayer data at IRS

Re:Treasury agrees to block DOGE's access to personal taxpay... by naravara on Friday February 21, 2025 @12:57PM (#43130688)

The practice of resigning rather than follow illegal/immoral orders seems ill suited to operating in a context where the leadership is an active adversary and can instantly replace you with someone who will just do the thing. I feel like civil servants need to internalize that the old customary practices are based on a context where there are checks and balances in the system, as well as standards of decency and democratic accountability, that make these sorts of formal actions have teeth. When none of that exists a principled resignation is basically just saying “My principles make me a hurdle to your attempts at violating the Constitutional rights of the public, so let me just get out of the way so you can sprint towards that goal more easily.”

Obviously though, it’s the dirty hands problem. 99% of the time we don’t want civil servants to do this because 99% of the time the President isn’t actively trying to unmake the Constitutional order. It’s very problematic to have civil servants thinking their judgement should overrule their leadership, but we’re in extraordinary times and there is no leadership of an opposition movement that can coordinate to set any sort of guardrails around that kind of willful insubordination.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Treasury agrees to block DOGE's access to personal taxpay... by gopher_space on Friday February 21, 2025 @02:43PM (#43132015)

> 99% of the time we don’t want civil servants to do this because 99% of the time the President isn’t actively trying to unmake the Constitutional order. It’s very problematic to have civil servants thinking their judgement should overrule their leadership[.]

Civil servants use their personal judgment 100% of the time because they're tasked with bringing local context to decisions made elsewhere. 99% of the time this isn't a problem because most of the people involved understand the process and their role in it.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Treasury agrees to block DOGE's access to personal taxpay... by naravara on Friday February 21, 2025 @07:12PM (#43134734)

For local context yeah, but in open defiance of their leadership not so much.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Treasury agrees to block DOGE's access to personal taxpay... by SR2Z on Monday February 24, 2025 @07:02PM (#43166451)

Then let Trump fire them!

The Republic is designed to protect and preserve the rights of its citizens. That government workers have consciences is a feature, not a bug.

The machinery of the American state is built on the voluntary cooperation of millions of Americans. Trump is not entitled to that; he is not a king and that's not how we do things here.

If he wants to gut the government and be ruler of the ashes, he may do that. If he wants to be the most powerful man in the world, he must earn the cooperation of the civil service.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Treasury agrees to block DOGE's access to personal taxpay... by sillywalk on Friday February 21, 2025 @10:32PM (#43135828)

> When none of that exists a principled resignation is basically just saying “My principles make me a hurdle to your attempts at violating the Constitutional rights of the public, so let me just get out of the way so you can sprint towards that goal more easily.”

While I sort of agree, there is also the very real threat of retaliation that could severely damage or destroy person's life. Both Trump and Musk are known to be very vindictive, and have both massive power and money. I'm not really sure what I would do when presented that kind of choice.

[ Parent | on HN ]