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Re:Bosch's brake-by-wire system may be the next big leap in ... by adiabatichottub on Sunday February 16, 2025 @11:15PM (#43075065)
It's not the use of electric control that scares me, it's the inherently complicated control system. A primarminarily mechanical and hydraulic system just plain has less things that can go wrong.

Maybe I'm just biased, but I believe in using the simplest tech that will do the job. You don't need an Arduino to blink an LED.

Re:Bosch's brake-by-wire system may be the next big leap in ... by daghamm on Monday February 17, 2025 @06:57AM (#43077960)
No, but a self-sustained 8-bit or even 32-bit MCU may be cheaper than a 555.
Re:Bosch's brake-by-wire system may be the next big leap in ... by gfkclzhzo on Monday February 17, 2025 @09:59AM (#43079628)
A well designed embedded systems based on microcontrollers can be very reliable.

Everything goes to hell if you need to connect to the internet or use high-level software.

Re:Bosch's brake-by-wire system may be the next big leap in ... by metaphor on Tuesday February 18, 2025 @09:11AM (#43089660)
> A well designed embedded systems based on microcontrollers can be very reliable.

The objective measure of what qualifies as "well designed embedded systems" is inherently gray; and where industries have seen some semblance of consensus as a matter of unconditional need, it has always been accompanied with the tears of executives complaining of non-trivial expense.

Re:Bosch's brake-by-wire system may be the next big leap in ... by gfkclzhzo on Tuesday February 18, 2025 @11:12AM (#43091226)
The same is true of purely mechanical designs.

Isolated embedded systems can be like mechanical systems in that they're simple enough to be tractable and even deterministic.

A system running Linux and calling AWS lamda functions through the cell network isn't tractable.

Re:Bosch's brake-by-wire system may be the next big leap in ... by ryukoposting on Tuesday February 18, 2025 @08:26AM (#43089188)
Electronics can certainly be made to have appliance-like reliability and consistency. I'm a firmware dev, I'd know. My design philosophy is this: if I'm doing my job right, the customer should never know I exist.

That being said, there's a time and a place for software. Software is a solution to a problem, and I'm not clear on what problem this system is solving. Sure, Bosch's product makes the brake system smaller and lighter. Cool. To what extent does that make the car smaller and lighter? Amdahl's law applies to more than computers. Are we really optimizing the right thing here?

Re:Bosch's brake-by-wire system may be the next big leap in ... by metaphor on Tuesday February 18, 2025 @08:47AM (#43089407)
> Electronics can certainly be made to have appliance-like reliability and consistency.

To be sure, when measured against prevailing market trends, this is objectively not a good thing. For safety-critical systems like a vehicle's brakes, I fully expect much more than the superficial considerations I would normally give to appliances.

Re:Bosch's brake-by-wire system may be the next big leap in ... by ryukoposting on Wednesday February 19, 2025 @09:35AM (#43102543)
Your words hurt, but only because I know you're right.
Re:Bosch's brake-by-wire system may be the next big leap in ... by Brian_K_White on Tuesday February 18, 2025 @08:50AM (#43089434)
It doesn't matter how bulletproof the software is. It's already a huge downgrade that it must run on a chip.

A mechanical linkage of cables or rods or a hydraulic system all have their failure points also, but the differences are

the infrastructure required to manufacture a stick or a tube vs a chip and solenoids, motors, sensors,

the fact that a cable or linkage or hydraulic piston usually fails gradually over a long time while still functioning, while a chip dies without warning and completely,

and is not repairable in the field except by replacement, while you can repair a mechanical device essentially indefinitely with essentially any tools and materials that are available.

Re:Bosch's brake-by-wire system may be the next big leap in ... by alkonaut on Tuesday February 18, 2025 @08:42AM (#43089336)
Brake systems have already gone from mostly mechanical/hydraulic to more and more electronic with ABS, radar-autobraking, individual wheel braking with ESP and so on. The drivers brake pedal is just one of many inputs to the eventually hydraulic system, while the other inputs are already electronic. It seems to me you can simplify it but keeping all the brake inputs electronic and fusing them closer to the wheel, instead of having a mixed mechanical/electronic system?

Same as a throttle. That used to be a wire (perhaps it commonly still is?) but the throttle input shifted from being solely the driver into being other systems like cruise control. As soon as you have an electromechanical system it does seem easiest to keep it electric->mechanical rather than mechanical<->electric. That simplification does ignore the driver feedback, however.

Re:Bosch's brake-by-wire system may be the next big leap in ... by maples37 on Tuesday February 18, 2025 @09:58AM (#43090229)
The key difference here, though, is that all of those electronics are integrated into, and do not break the path of, the absolutely-must-work hydraulic path.

Throttle-by-wire is a different beast entirely. If you step on the gas and don't go, that's usually very annoying, and depending on circumstances could be dangerous. But if you step on the brakes and don't stop, that's pretty much a guaranteed wreck right there.

Re:Bosch's brake-by-wire system may be the next big leap in ... by yencabulator on Tuesday February 18, 2025 @11:01AM (#43091058)
ABS does break that path. And then because it's decreasing pressure it now has to have an electric pump to bring it back up.
Re:Bosch's brake-by-wire system may be the next big leap in ... by richiebful1 on Tuesday February 18, 2025 @09:06AM (#43089603)
To clear things up: the throttle used to be a physical cable, like on an affordable bicycle with rim brakes. It is still a cable on most motorcycles.