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Re:Dust from Car Brakes More Harmful Than Exhaust, Study Finds by AnthonyMouse on Saturday February 15, 2025 @12:34PM (#43060346)
> However, if we get as many people to use e-bikes or e-scooters, then the size and weight issues pretty much disappear.

I still don't understand how they expect to solve the occupant safety issue though. Cars travel at high speeds but have crumple zones and airbags. E-bikes travel at the same speeds but if you crash, you die. And 2-wheeled vehicles are easier to crash.

The fatality rate for motorcycles is astonishingly bad and changing the propulsion type wouldn't really affect that.

Re:Dust from Car Brakes More Harmful Than Exhaust, Study Finds by ndsipa_pomu on Saturday February 15, 2025 @12:43PM (#43060425)
Some measures can be taken such as reducing urban speed limits to something like 20mph and increasing traffic enforcement so that riders/drivers have an incentive to take sufficient care.

There's also the possibility of creating separated infrastructure to allow the smaller/lighter vehicle riders (e.g. two/three wheelers) to not have to tangle with car and lorry drivers. However that requires political will and infrastructure investment.

Re:Dust from Car Brakes More Harmful Than Exhaust, Study Finds by AnthonyMouse on Saturday February 15, 2025 @12:56PM (#43060536)
Speed limits are set for the conditions, e.g. they're lower in an area with high pedestrian traffic than on the highway. But that's just dodging the issue; what do you do about the highway? Traveling at higher speeds on the appropriate roads is good and people want to continue to do that. You want plumbers and firefighters to be able to travel quickly from one side of the city to the other. So then you've got a highway, but if you put two-wheeled vehicles on it then people die, and if you disallow two-wheeled vehicles on it then people buy cars instead.

Ironically, the somewhat obvious solution to this would be smaller/lighter cars (e.g. one- or two-seaters), but they can't pass the safety standards required for cars even though they would still be dramatically safer than two-wheeled vehicles.

Re:Dust from Car Brakes More Harmful Than Exhaust, Study Finds by Earw0rm on Saturday February 15, 2025 @01:31PM (#43060871)
Plumbers and firefighters have stuff to haul and long distances to cover. They need to do 40/50/60mph on the freeway, and 15/20mph on local surface access roads where they're mixed in with light vehicles.

The whole light-vehicle thing is predicated on low speeds and relatively short distances (up to about 15 miles). Most urban areas, even fairly sprawling ones, that's enough to cover a pretty substantial % of trips.

It's about using 1/10th the weight and 1/50th the power to cover a big % of the same tasks. Personally I'd say the bike/scooter/golf-buggy, and then either an owned or shared car for the last 10% of trips where you need to use the freeway is a better optimum than high-speed light vehicles, because as soon as you get to about 25-30mph you need impact protection, and the design constraints quickly escalate to "absolutely no smaller than a Fiat 500".

There's also ofc the option of mass transit for some of the longer distance stuff, at least in cities that are able to build it.

Re:Dust from Car Brakes More Harmful Than Exhaust, Study Finds by AnthonyMouse on Saturday February 15, 2025 @02:45PM (#43061622)
> as soon as you get to about 25-30mph you need impact protection, and the design constraints quickly escalate to "absolutely no smaller than a Fiat 500".

The real problem here is that as soon as you need impact protection, you get four wheels, and then it's classified as a car instead of a motorcycle and the government safety standards for cars de facto require "absolutely no smaller than a Fiat 500".

What would be interesting is to change the definition of "motorcycle" from "has fewer than 4 wheels" to "has fewer than 3 seats" and see what happens.

Re:Dust from Car Brakes More Harmful Than Exhaust, Study Finds by Earw0rm on Sunday February 16, 2025 @07:43AM (#43067565)
This is the case in France & some other EU countries (light quadricycles - Renault, Citroen and so on) and Japan (Kei Cars).

The problem seems to be that for most people who can legally drive a full-scale car (i.e. they're not too young or too old) getting a do-everything vehicle on finance is more attractive at that point.

They're somewhat popular with youngsters in rural areas (cheap to insure, minimum driver age is 14 I think, whereas for cars in France it's 17) and with frailer, older people who can't walk or cycle very far and don't have the stamina for longer drives, they just want an inexpensive little runabout to get to the village shops, nearby friends and appointments.

But they're expensive enough (about $10k) that you're unlikely to buy one in addition to your regular do-it-all car, where you might buy an ebike, pedal bike or motorcycle. Maybe as a second vehicle in a childless couple where one partner does almost all the driving, but unless heavier vehicles are highly taxed or restricted (city low emission & congestion zones), there's not enough advantage in one of these for mass adoption.

Re:Dust from Car Brakes More Harmful Than Exhaust, Study Finds by ghaff on Saturday February 15, 2025 @01:31PM (#43060866)
Furthermore, when I've eaten at the sidewalk area of a restaurant near a theater I go to in the summer, the protected bike lane has truly terrifying combinations of traffic outside of cars including what I guess are electric motorcycles. And, because it's a "bike" lane, a ton of users basically just blow through the red lights.
Re:Dust from Car Brakes More Harmful Than Exhaust, Study Finds by tim333 on Saturday February 15, 2025 @01:42PM (#43060975)
The safety is a function of the speed you are going. Legal ebikes in the UK are limited to 15mph which is normally survivable unlike say a 125cc scooter doing 60mph.

I've got an ebike in central london and find it quite practical on the whole. For local journeys <2miles it's faster than anything else and you can go down mostly traffic restricted roads. For intercity you can put the bike on a train. Rain is a bit of a pain.

Re:Dust from Car Brakes More Harmful Than Exhaust, Study Finds by ndsipa_pomu on Saturday February 15, 2025 @01:53PM (#43061099)
They can provide assist up to 15.5 mph IIRC, but aren't limited to a top speed apart from your legs and/or finding a big hill.
Re:Dust from Car Brakes More Harmful Than Exhaust, Study Finds by tim333 on Saturday February 15, 2025 @02:18PM (#43061353)
Yeah. It's quite interesting watching it develop in London. Basically all the Deliveroo guys use ebikes, often converted mountain bikes. A fair number of commuters use the Lime bikes, though far less than who use the tube. We are also starting to see some ebike delievery van hybrids like the DPD ones here https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advice/features/alternativ...

that could be a win for the environment and I guess they replace normal vans. And I just saw a two seater ebike taxi with a roof.

Re:Dust from Car Brakes More Harmful Than Exhaust, Study Finds by globular-toast on Sunday February 16, 2025 @05:13AM (#43066926)
> I still don't understand how they expect to solve the occupant safety issue though.

What issue? I would regularly go 50km/h down hills on my road bike. That was completely my choice and if I came off I'd suffer the consequences.

The problem isn't the occupants. Nobody is forced to travel at high speeds (except on motorways). The problem is the people around and the environment. I definitely would not ever go that fast in town, even down a hill, because it's generally not safe for the people around me.

The problem with cars is the huge imbalance of power. Every car has the capability of killing or disabling you. But you can't disable them. As far as I know, carrying a portable EMP device is neither practical nor legal. Two wheeled vehicles don't exhibit this imbalance of power, not even motorbikes. I believe this is the most important reason to get rid of cars from towns.

Re:Dust from Car Brakes More Harmful Than Exhaust, Study Finds by ndsipa_pomu on Sunday February 16, 2025 @07:14AM (#43067438)
> I definitely would not ever go that fast in town, even down a hill, because it's generally not safe for the people around me.

If you're on a bike, then you should also prioritise your own safety as you're likely to come off worse even when colliding with a pedestrian.

Anecdata time: my brother (over 60 years old and a very experienced cyclist) was heading down a hill, presumably at some speed and a young boy stepped out in front of him. They collided and my brother came off and ended up with a broken collar bone, broken rib, collapsed lung and minor concussion (he's fully recovered now). The kid received no damage apart from bruising AFAIK.

Re:Dust from Car Brakes More Harmful Than Exhaust, Study Finds by globular-toast on Sunday February 16, 2025 @01:25PM (#43070263)
Yes, and cyclists generally do, as do motorcyclists. It's kinda natural by the time you get up adulthood to assess your risk and behave accordingly (ie. lower speed, don't walk close to the edge etc) The difference with cars is they are not at risk and they can't even see/hear/feel the speed and impact they are having on others so their judgement is completely screwed. Many of them have never even experienced the road outside of a car.