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Re:Scaling Up Test-Time Compute with Latent Reasoning: A Rec... by ckrapu on Monday February 10, 2025 @06:37PM (#43006730)
My opinion is that opaque reasoning is a prerequisite for many of the worst possible AI outcomes.

We should make reasoning fully visible in the output space.

Re:Scaling Up Test-Time Compute with Latent Reasoning: A Rec... by optimalsolver on Monday February 10, 2025 @07:42PM (#43007400)
Is there any actual evidence that the reasoning tokens output by current models actually represents the computation happening in the hidden layers?

In both cases, the model is doing a ton of processing that you can't actually inspect, except here, you at least get some efficiency gains.

Even more importantly, you're also less likely to convince yourself that you know what the model is thinking.

Re:Scaling Up Test-Time Compute with Latent Reasoning: A Rec... by anothermathbozo on Monday February 10, 2025 @08:19PM (#43007768)
No and we’ve observed evidence to the contrary
Re:Scaling Up Test-Time Compute with Latent Reasoning: A Rec... by mola on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @04:17AM (#43010657)
Do you have some reading material on this? How did they understand the difference between stated cot and "actual processing"
Re:Scaling Up Test-Time Compute with Latent Reasoning: A Rec... by ckrapu on Thursday February 13, 2025 @01:48AM (#43033352)
In the autoregressive decoding framework, the hidden layers' state for computation of token `t` is conditionally independent of all hidden states for `t-1`, `t-2` and so on given the observed tokens.

Put differently, the observed tokens are a bottleneck on the information that can be communicated across tokens. Any scheming performed by an LLM which requires more than one token to formulate must therefore pass through the visible tokens. With opaque vectors transferred across decoding steps, this is not the case.

The computation in the hidden layers, as far as we can tell, is not sufficient for scheming in a single decoding step. It looks like it requires O(10^2) or O(10^3) steps instead, judging from anecdotal evidence like the reports of scheming from o1 (https://cdn.openai.com/o1-system-card-20241205.pdf)

As far as your last point goes, I'd rather have a more transparent system, all other factors held constant.

Re:Scaling Up Test-Time Compute with Latent Reasoning: A Rec... by DennisP on Monday February 10, 2025 @07:16PM (#43007153)
That actually sounds like it'd be really helpful.
Re:Scaling Up Test-Time Compute with Latent Reasoning: A Rec... by Imanari on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @05:57AM (#43011369)
maybe let it reason in latent space but have a method to transform and output it to text for inspection.
Re:Scaling Up Test-Time Compute with Latent Reasoning: A Rec... by nsikorr on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @09:13AM (#43012905)
The paper suggests that that is still possible with the proposed architecture if needed.
Re:Scaling Up Test-Time Compute with Latent Reasoning: A Rec... by miven on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @09:51AM (#43013365)
Chain of thought isn't exactly transparent either, you shouldn't fall into the pitfall of believing that the final sequence of tokens thinking about the task is the only processing the model actually performs during CoT.

There might me a lot of other hidden computations happening within the model's latents which may not immediately influence the predicted tokens but be relevant for the model's internal processing. And even disregarding that, the model is under no formal obligation to stick to the chain of thought it produced for its final decisions.