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Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by tyre on Sunday January 26, 2025 @02:19PM (#42833039)
I gotta say, reading this I have no idea what Render actually does or how it's different from AWS or Heroku. They say they've threaded the needle between the two to provide a new way of deploying infra, but what that is…who knows! Naturally a paragraph on AI.

At some point companies lose the ability to say, "We are X. It used to be that Y, which had issues of A, B, C. Instead, X does Z, so $USERS can now D, E, F." Where the letters are specific (not empty words like "innovative").

As they grow, these companies add additional products, which is one reason I think they lose this. That's okay! Add one or two sentences (max) that say, "Once we solved Z, we kept building to offer L, M, and N. We expanded from serving $USERS to supporting $EXPANDED_USERS who need O and P."

It's kind of wild how rare that clarity of communication is. Stripe still does a pretty good job despite the _huge_ range of products, complexity, customer profiles, abstractions, and interfaces.

You can definitely tell when companies are either parroting what they've read other splash pages say or are using LLMs to say a bunch of empty platitudes. Good writing is really fking hard.

Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by RainyDayTmrw on Sunday January 26, 2025 @03:08PM (#42833530)
There's some anecdotal accounts that, through the mismanagement of its acquirer, Heroku is slowly dying after the acquisition. If Render so much as provides the Heroku experience at its peak, that would already be valuable, and many of us would already be happy.

Of course, if Render directly says, "We're going to be like Heroku before it went off the rails," that's not compelling to media or investors. So, instead, they've got to fluff it up a bit with marketing buzz. Throwing in some AI won't hurt, either.

Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by didgeoridoo on Sunday January 26, 2025 @05:54PM (#42835095)
Heroku was acquired in 2011, so to be fair it did take Salesforce quite a long time to screw it up.
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by netswift on Sunday January 26, 2025 @02:49PM (#42833346)
I really love Render.

AWS is too low level for me. Render helps us spin up new applications in a few clicks. Kind of like Vercel for backend.

Might just be a skill issue but I can definitely see the value from using the product.

Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by ignoramous on Sunday January 26, 2025 @02:52PM (#42833381)
> AWS is too low level for me

We had good success with Lightsail; but then moved to Fly.io & the Cloudflare platform and spend ~zero time on sre & devops.

Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by RainyDayTmrw on Sunday January 26, 2025 @03:09PM (#42833544)
I'm curious what you use for a database on Fly.io. When I last looked into it, a proper managed database option was the last thing that they were missing from what I wanted.
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by SOLAR_FIELDS on Sunday January 26, 2025 @04:33PM (#42834376)
I'm not skin in the game on either company but I know that they partnered with Supabase for awhile on this. I'm not sure if that partnership is ongoing or not.
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by alexeldeib on Sunday January 26, 2025 @04:56PM (#42834570)
Supabase would be a good pick. Vercel and Cloudflare both do SQL DBs now too, curious how they are. Neon seemed interesting, haven’t heard much about them in a while.

None of those integrated of course, but easier than going big cloud or self hosted

Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by thrwaway223 on Sunday January 26, 2025 @07:18PM (#42835829)
Vercel SQL DB is just a thin wrapper (with added cost) on Neon
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by leerob on Sunday January 26, 2025 @07:22PM (#42835859)
(I work at Vercel) We got rid of this and made it the same price as using Neon directly. We also added a bunch more database options (e.g. Supabase) https://vercel.com/marketplace
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by didgeoridoo on Sunday January 26, 2025 @06:03PM (#42835184)
Not first party, but they offer integrations with Neon, Supabase, PlanetScale, and Crunchy Bridge for managed pg.

Their “you’re on your own” option is really nice though for cheap, non-mission-critical stuff, and you can even scale the compute to zero during inactivity and just pay the attached volume costs.

Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by AutistiCoder on Monday January 27, 2025 @11:50AM (#42843055)
I've found Azure's serverless hosting decently easy to work with, too.
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by anurag on Sunday January 26, 2025 @02:23PM (#42833080)
Hello fellow Xtripe! This blog post wasn't meant to focus on differentiation, but you might find this useful:

https://render.com/docs/render-vs-heroku-comparison

Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B on Sunday January 26, 2025 @02:49PM (#42833342)
It's not helping me. All I understand is that you provide some stuff for Docker, static web sites, and databases. That's good, but it seems very specific. So specific that, as a former devops, I don't understand why you could be useful to me or why I would need your help.
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by anurag on Sunday January 26, 2025 @02:55PM (#42833409)
We need to improve our product marketing! Render focuses exclusively on application engineers who need to run things in the cloud without worrying about devops; this also means we don't focus on the needs of devops engineers.
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by verdverm on Sunday January 26, 2025 @03:00PM (#42833463)
It also means that when an application reaches a certain maturity or complexity, they have to leave platforms like Render to clouds where they can do the things they need to operate with efficiency. There is a tradeoff point. Platforms like Render are small team efficient, clouds are organization efficient
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by anurag on Sunday January 26, 2025 @03:08PM (#42833537)
This is the narrative we disagree with most people on and are focused on disproving: multiple unicorns have started and stayed on Render, and our platform continues to add capabilities as their needs become more complex.
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by verdverm on Sunday January 26, 2025 @03:15PM (#42833615)
Exceptions to the rule (some unicorns, a crude measure for tech needs) do not break the rule. If anything, the trend is shifting back to self-hosting instead of running on any vendor.

If you add the same capabilities you end up becoming the cloud provider concept you wish to "disprove"

Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by steve_adams_86 on Sunday January 26, 2025 @07:45PM (#42836032)
Which unicorns?
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by jacobsenscott on Sunday January 26, 2025 @03:15PM (#42833619)
A lot of apps never grow to that size, and can run on services like render or heroku forever, saving millions of dollars in devops cost (the most expensive part of devops is the devops engineer).

A good number of companies out there move to google scale infrastructure and spin up whole devops teams when they would be fine without all that out of fear of having to move later. That later might never come.

Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by verdverm on Sunday January 26, 2025 @03:22PM (#42833683)
A good devops engineer or team will pay for itself, so it becomes an asset rather than a liability. A certain amount of scale or complexity forms a baseline. I get consulting / contracting gigs for this very reason, granted what I do goes beyond just cloud infra & costs, devops/dx as a philosophy rather than a job title. It is valuable to an organization to have some(one|people) thinking about these problems from a global & holistic view
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by scirob on Sunday January 26, 2025 @03:05PM (#42833504)
nothing that you can't do in AWS but generally Render tries to do things in less clicks and have less advanced clicks for you to accidentally press. Thats pretty much it nothing fancy.
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by tyre on Sunday January 26, 2025 @04:26PM (#42834307)
Every announcement, _especially_ huge press events like fundraising, should be clear on value prop and differentiation. I’m a potential user. You had my eyeballs, but missed the opportunity to sell me. And if you can do it in 3–5 sentences, you can put that everywhere.

It’s so, so, so important to repeat your message at every opportunity; particularly at moments, like fundraising announcements, where you’ll have access to new potential users (vs. something like a feature release where the readers are far more likely to be existing users.)

Additionally, another group of readers here would be potential hires. They probably want to know why you’re different!

Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by dprotaso on Monday January 27, 2025 @12:41AM (#42837793)
Is Render still using Knative?

https://render.com/blog/knative ?

Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by anurag on Monday January 27, 2025 @12:55AM (#42837864)
Not any more. We replaced it with our own code that did exactly what we needed it to do.
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by serjester on Sunday January 26, 2025 @03:02PM (#42833484)
We use Render for our startup and I think it’s major value add is the simple deployment story. We had a database go down for really strange reasons, and the render technical support was incredibly helpful to work with and resolved the issue in hours.

The major cloud providers are quite intimidating to work with and frankly we have much bigger problems to spend our time on than (potentially) saving a couple grand a month. Heroku was nice but it’s been abandoned for years. Fly is a similar competitor but they seem to have monthly outages. We find Render simple, boring and dependable - for us that’s worth the premium they charge.

Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by lamename on Sunday January 26, 2025 @03:04PM (#42833495)
Good writing is hard, but it's also very easy to just regurgitate patterns of nonsense buzzwords you see everywhere else. I've seen many people hear that and just nod their head. Sadly it convinces some.
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by SOLAR_FIELDS on Sunday January 26, 2025 @04:31PM (#42834362)
Taken more charitably from the business' perspective, the playbook you outline that you wish businesses provided is outright giving away some of the R&D that they took to arrive at those conclusions, which has some nonzero value to competitors. I would love to go ask some incumbent exactly the playbook of what worked and what didn't on their voyage to the market so that I could just skip all the things that don't work
Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by loktarogar on Sunday January 26, 2025 @04:40PM (#42834426)
I have a lot of data-heavy websites that are completely automated on Render. I don't need to care about them day to day. Render abstracts a lot of work away from me.

Before this I used Heroku. Heroku basically filled the same role but nowadays it's less flexible and after all the issues I couldn't wait to get away from them. Render feels like a better Heroku for my specific needs.

Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by ibash on Sunday January 26, 2025 @06:09PM (#42835250)
Modern heroku. The toolset is standard for web these days (eg docker, etc) but you don’t need to roll your own devops.

It might be hard to understand the value prop because it seems like a commodity… but that’s exactly the value prop: a commodity that works well, is priced right, and you don’t need to worry about using some weird toolset or rolling your own infrastructure.

Re:Render raises $80M in Series C financing by AutistiCoder on Monday January 27, 2025 @11:48AM (#42843036)
Same.

In 3-5 sentences, what specifically differentiates Render from, say, AWS Lambda?

For example, how much money would I save from making the switch?