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Re:Looking at some claims that quantum computers won't work by woodruffw on Saturday January 18, 2025 @06:58PM (#42752442)
> Cloudflare, which hosts a considerable fraction of the Internet's web sites, reports that 33% of its connections are using post-quantum crypto as of January 2025.

DJB's narrative is a little selective here: Cloudflare has done some incredibly impressive things with post-quantum key agreement, which is arguably the "easy"[1] part of moving the Web PKI/TLS to a PQ setting. But key agreement doesn't tell the parties why they should trust each other; you need signatures and certificates for that, and those will need to be PQ-ready too.

That part is much harder, for both technical (larger certificates implied by most PQ signing schemes are much harder to reliably convey over packet networks) and political (the X.509 ecosystem moves very slowly, and penetration of new signature schemes takes years) reasons.

[1]: Nothing about it is easy.

Re:Looking at some claims that quantum computers won't work by Azerty9999 on Saturday January 18, 2025 @07:47PM (#42752674)
Wanted to provide the source for your posting about 33% of Cloudflare TLS traffic having Post-Quantum Encryption as of Jan 2025 [1]

[1] https://radar.cloudflare.com/adoption-and-usage#post-quantum...

Re:Looking at some claims that quantum computers won't work by woodruffw on Saturday January 18, 2025 @09:09PM (#42753008)
> Are you indicating that Cloudflare's implementation isn't truly fully post quantum secure because of lagging certificate standards/technology?

Yes, although I wouldn't say "truly" because they haven't intimated that it is. I'm not claiming any malfeasance on Cloudflare's part: they have been very explicit about the fact that the PQ components deployed so far are only in the key exchange. Bas Westerbaan has a great post on the Cloudflare blog about the state of PQ in 2024.

Re:Looking at some claims that quantum computers won't work by adgjlsfhk1 on Saturday January 18, 2025 @10:53PM (#42753407)
Certificates don't need to worry about store now decrypt later. As such, IIUC Cloudflare has another decade at least before they need to start worrying about this.
Re:Looking at some claims that quantum computers won't work by woodruffw on Sunday January 19, 2025 @12:09AM (#42753864)
The update cycle for root trust programs is extremely long, especially if you care about anything older than the newest, most consistently up-to-date systems. So it's a "now" issue, insofar as it won't be a problem for at least another decade.
Re:Looking at some claims that quantum computers won't work by armitron on Sunday January 19, 2025 @08:16AM (#42756698)
DJB is not being "selective", instead you're nitpicking on something tangential to the point he's trying to make and creating the impression that what you wrote detracts from his point when that's definitely not the case.
Re:Looking at some claims that quantum computers won't work by woodruffw on Sunday January 19, 2025 @03:41PM (#42761569)
His point in this section is that people are incorrectly or unreasonably claiming that PQC adoption in hard.

He uses Cloudflare's 33% number as counterevidence against it being hard, and I'm pointing out how this is a selective argument: it was "easy" because nobody, Cloudflare included, considers just PQ key exchange to be a full adoption of PQC. The full adoption requires asymmetric PQC and a corresponding re-imagining of how to encapsulate much larger public keys over the Internet, which is decidedly not easy.

(I don't have opinions on whether QC "won't work" or not; I think it's good to pursue PQC regardless, since we should have more "hard" primitives that don't decompose to the hidden subgroup problem.)