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Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by RajT88 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @11:35AM (#42699572)
I wasn't suggesting an equivalence, just that the phenomena of the rage machine exists on both sides.

As an exercise, try coming up with some metric to measure it. Could be inflammatory posts, or the comment count on inflammatory posts. Compare BB BBS with some rough equivalent right-leaning place. You'll find it's worse in the right-leaning forum, no doubt.

But the phenomena exists on both sides of the political spectrum.

Many trends among one side of the political spectrum are mirrored to a lesser extent on the other side as well, and that's interesting don't you think?

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by llamaimperative on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @11:48AM (#42699829)
I don’t find it that interesting because it’s obviously a consequence of our information environment. We have constructed algorithmic outrage machines and deferred thought and curation to them.

It’s far more interesting to me how one side of the political spectrum was so totally swallowed by this system, to the extent that literally every single news story is received with outlandish conspiracy theorizing from rather mainstream right wing media.

The null hypothesis is that actually both sides should be equally distorted, but it is very obviously the case they are not. That is what deserves inquiry.

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by geodel on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @12:20PM (#42700395)
> but it is very obviously the case they are not.

It not obvious and also doesn't seem true at all. Still one may continue to investigate with this assumption but then result will neither be truth or much useful.

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by RajT88 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @12:34PM (#42700657)
I would agree it's not obvious - but also if you don't think it's true, I'd love to hear why you think that. If you have numbers, even better.
Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by llamaimperative on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @12:26PM (#42700523)
Yeah, it really is obvious. Here's one excellent example: the dominant right wing media apparatus knowingly engaging in a conspiratorial lie that fetched them a $787 million punishment.

https://apnews.com/article/fox-news-dominion-lawsuit-trial-t...

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by Satisfy4400 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:03PM (#42703029)
It seems to me there's plenty of conspiratorial thinking on the left. The rhetoric around Project 2025 comes to mind as a recent example. Same with rhetoric around for-profit prisons (e.g., I see lots of people saying our criminal justice system is primarily profit driven).

If I had to guess, I'd say such thinking is more widespread on the right, but I find it very difficult to see these sort of things clearly since I'm generally left-leaning in my politics.

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by llamaimperative on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:27PM (#42703370)
Which rhetoric around Project 2025 specifically? Everything I saw claimed to be in it is actually in it, and Trump’s distance from it was complete bullshit.

I haven’t heard anyone say our justice system is primarily profit-driven, and certainly haven’t heard any notable mainstreamers taking that position. One could argue lefties overplay the significance/effects of commercial incentives, but I also think it’s defensible to say there should be (to the extent possible) no commercial incentives in incarceration whatsoever.

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by Satisfy4400 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:52PM (#42703683)
This is from Rep. Jared Huffman:

“Project 2025 is more than an idea, it's a dystopian plot that’s already in motion to dismantle our democratic institutions, abolish checks and balances, chip away at church-state separation, and impose a far-right agenda that infringes on basic liberties and violates public will. This is an unprecedented embrace of extremism, fascism, and religious nationalism, orchestrated by the radical right and its dark money backers. We need a coordinated strategy to save America and stop this coup before it’s too late."

https://huffman.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/congre...

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by RajT88 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @05:42PM (#42704955)
Which parts of that quote don't align with the actual policy proposals?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#Policies

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by Satisfy4400 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @03:50PM (#42703659)
Here's one example on prisons from a quick Kagi search:

"Currently, many think that the goals of [American Prison System] APS are to rehabilitate inmates and help them function properly in the real world. However, the APS’s high recidivism rate and methods of revenue creation support the conclusion that increasing the prison population may be the real goal of the APS."

https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2018/12/09/the-american-pr...

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by llamaimperative on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @04:18PM (#42704006)
The prison system is not “the justice system.”

Yes, if a prison makes money from incarcerating people, its natural goal will be to incarcerate people.

For-profit prisons also have higher chances of recidivism, which bears this out as well.

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by Satisfy4400 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @05:04PM (#42704551)
https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2023/03/07/courts-profit-and-th...

"Daniel Hatcher used to work as an attorney for Maryland Legal Aid. He says he's seen American courts turn into a system that's more interested in profits than justice.

'California is pursuing billions in fines and fees, and Alabama, multiple prosecutors' offices in Alabama generate 70% of their total funding solely by the pursuit of these court ordered fines and fees against the poor,' Daniel Hatcher says.

Hatcher says that when profit becomes the point, families become targets of the very justice system that is meant to protect."

The suggestion that profit is "the point" of California's criminal fines and fees seems absolutely wild to me.

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by llamaimperative on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @06:20PM (#42705292)
Ah, the notable figurehead Daniel Hatcher, who used to work as an attorney in Maryland, I suppose.

> I haven’t heard anyone say our justice system is primarily profit-driven, and certainly haven’t heard any notable mainstreamers taking that position.

I suppose you can find someone to say any ol' opinion on the vast Internet. I'll consider clause 1 to be disproven and clause 2 to stand.

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by Satisfy4400 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @08:01PM (#42706104)
I'd consider someone saying profit is the "point" to mean it is primarily profit driven. You asked for an example and I provided one. It's pretty clear your mind is made up, so best of luck to you.
Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by llamaimperative on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @09:09PM (#42706518)
Did you read the comment? I said yes, you've demonstrated that a person has expressed that sentiment. I said "no notable mainstreamer" has, and your example doesn't refute that. No one knows who this guy is!
Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @12:46PM (#42700857)
Here is an excellent example that many people think you're wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_elections
Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by llamaimperative on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @12:57PM (#42701046)
You must've forgotten what the conversation is about. It's about the degree to which each side is wrapped up in an outrage machine.

That would be reflected in the election results, and not in the way you're implying.

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @12:58PM (#42701061)
when my side wins it's good and true and when the other side wins it's the outrage machine
Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by llamaimperative on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @12:59PM (#42701078)
That's not my belief, which is why I didn't post the terrible evidence of election results. You did.

I posted a court settlement for the crime of knowingly producing untrue, defamatory outrage at massive scale.

Note how mine is evidence for my argument. Yours is evidence for nothing at all.

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by standardUser on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @02:30PM (#42702519)
You seem to have dodged the larger point that right wing rage is a mainstream phenomenon and a dominant force across television, radio, podcasts and social media, whereas comparably hateful and violent language on the left is mostly only in the margins.
Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by Satisfy4400 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @02:55PM (#42702917)
The glorification of Luigi Mangione in some left-leaning circles seems to be a counterpoint to your assertion.
Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by NickC25 on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @04:18PM (#42704008)
The only divide is pushed from the corporate media who desperately wants 1. this to be a left/right issue and 2. for everyone to stfu because United spends billions of dollars advertising on said media's platforms.

Luigi's selfless act of heroism on the behalf of the American middle and lower classes should be treated as such.

You'll find that United Fraudcare doesn't discriminate on left/right when it comes to denying care to those who need it most. The same can be said for the victims of United denying them services that they paid handsomely for over the course of several years.

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by BlueTemplar on Wednesday January 15, 2025 @05:49AM (#42709516)
But it is a left/right issue : this obviously wouldn't have happened in a socialist country. (You would still have had issues with higher status people sometimes getting much better healthcare of course.)

The problem here is that people confuse left/right with Democrat/Republican and seem to think that Trump is on the right just because he used the Republican party : he is no more on the right than the Nazis, who deployed both left leaning and right leaning policies when those suited them.

Re:In the Belly of the MrBeast by llamaimperative on Tuesday January 14, 2025 @02:59PM (#42702965)
Addressed with polling data below. There is no evidence of a significant left/right divide on this issue.