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Re:English-friendly Romanization system proposed for Japanes... by DemocracyFTW2 on Monday January 06, 2025 @03:03AM (#42608669)
This is the most puzzling, and, apparently, puzzled, piece I've read today so far, and it's already twenty to nine a.m. Quote:

Nihombashi, a district of Tokyo, has long been spelled with “m,” instead of “n,” although the consonant is followed by “b.”

Apart from the punctuation following crazy American rules going really really wrong here, the sentence does not make any sense, at all. You'll see Nihonbashi like 9 out of 10 times on the street and on the maps. Nihombashi is a minority spelling; it is indeed truer to the sound of it as the moraic nasal (written ん as in にほんばし) is not an [n] but rather an "underspecified nasal closure" than can come out as [n], [m], [ŋ] or even a sound approaching [b] depending on the surrounding sounds and the speaker. But it's a usage only followed by a minority.

Now the article says the place name has long been spelled with "m" instead of "n"—not true—and remarks that that is "although" "n" is here followed by "b"—that's wrong, the "m" is used here because the nasal precedes "b", it is a case of retrograde assimilation.

Lastly the article tries to concoct a newsworthy soup out of a bit of thin air that escaped out of a bureaucracy concerned with its own relevance. Be it said that for decades nobody except some nerds, some die-hards, some spelling enthusiasts and unhappy people forced to obey a particular set of arcane rules set up after the war has been, in the past half-century, publicly written "Hukusima" or "zyûdô" in earnest. These are totally cromulent and systematic spellings when you know the system and they're true to the Japanese phonological system, but nobody uses them. The news here is that, maybe, in the future, even fewer people may be using them, and that those who ditched the rules that only applied to some government agencies anyway can now do so without breaking the rules.

Re:English-friendly Romanization system proposed for Japanes... by pilaf on Monday January 06, 2025 @07:20AM (#42609960)
Tokyo Metro romanizes 日本橋 as Nihombashi, you can look up the station on Google Maps and check out the photos, the signage showing "Nihombashi" shows up pretty soon.

Google Maps itself also romanizes it as Nihombashi. Same applies to 神保町 (Jimbōchō), for instance.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/5gDMNmqJwsHTsEUk8

Re:English-friendly Romanization system proposed for Japanes... by DemocracyFTW2 on Monday January 06, 2025 @07:56AM (#42610176)
You're perfectly right and it's what occurred to me when I lived in Japan, too: you do get to see 'abberant' spellings quite often and that's because train companies decided many, many decades ago on what system to employ for their English station names, and those stuck of course because of printed schedules and so on. Depending on how you count Nihombashi either gets lots of points b/c of the many people who get to see this particular name each day, or it just gets a single point because it's one spot on the map. Observe that when you click through the pictures to get to the actual map—you'll find "Nihonbashi Bridge" spelled in the more common way (including the adorable repetition). So arguably 'Nihonbashi' it is in general but the station name is spelled with an 'm'.
Re:English-friendly Romanization system proposed for Japanes... by pilaf on Monday January 06, 2025 @09:04AM (#42610621)
Yeah I think you're right, unless you often visit those places it's more common to just see their names only when you pass by their train stations or see them on the train maps, so the "mb" spellings stand out more.
Re:English-friendly Romanization system proposed for Japanes... by DemocracyFTW2 on Monday January 06, 2025 @09:12AM (#42610674)
Try not to get peeve-hooked by it but take it as an expression of the democratic, open societies that the folks in S Korea, Taiwan and Japan try to be and the jumble that is the many divergent transcription systems becomes a way to express their freedom...
Re:English-friendly Romanization system proposed for Japanes... by Tainnor on Monday January 06, 2025 @11:09AM (#42611739)
Try Thailand. People will just make up whatever romanisation they want to. "Fookoosheema" would definitely happen there. They also sometimes randomly throw in an r, not exactly sure why (maybe hypercorrection, because casual speech tends to drop rs).
Re:English-friendly Romanization system proposed for Japanes... by DemocracyFTW2 on Monday January 06, 2025 @11:48AM (#42612219)
The 'r' is to the best of my understanding not thrown in randomly but a reflection of British spelling. British being a non-rhotic dialect of English doesn't sound post-vocalic, pre-consonantal 'r's. Hence in spellings like 'Vajiralongkorn' the 'r' just serves to indicate a long o [ɔː] which contrasts with the short o [o] of 'long'.
Re:English-friendly Romanization system proposed for Japanes... by Tainnor on Tuesday January 07, 2025 @12:15AM (#42619498)
That's part of it but doesn't explain why Phat khaprao is sometimes spelled as phat krapow or similar. Although maybe that's just non-Thais mixing it up.
Re:English-friendly Romanization system proposed for Japanes... by DemocracyFTW2 on Tuesday January 07, 2025 @03:37AM (#42620537)
I asked Copilot:

> "phat khaprao" or "phat krapow", which one is correct Thai?

> In Thai, the correct spelling is "phat kaphrao" (ผัดกะเพรา). This dish, known for its delicious combination of stir-fried meat (often chicken, pork, or seafood) with holy basil, garlic, and chili, is a staple in Thai cuisine.

Might of course be an often-heard variant name of a popular dish.